The CWS3 Discussion Thread: Praise God, it's finished.

[Big Rick Cook]

Re: CWS Discussion: The Next Generation.

The third Book finishes with a bang. Current story statistics:

Unformatted forum version is 360 pages long at the end of Book 3.
Formatted final version is 287 pages long at the end of Book 3.
With today's editing out of the way, I'm on page 391 out of 548.

Things are still running smoothly, guys.

[TheHonorableRyu]

Re: CWS Discussion: The Next Generation.

Did we ever reach an out-of-story decision as to how Gjigrajheth's Thorn was forged?

I'm not going to answer this in my addition, but I also don't want to write anything that could in any way contradict any of the workable concepts we may already have.


EDIT: Also, I seem to be missing Mora's last addition! I still have Magik's and Rick's last entries but somehow I misplaced Mora's; could someone send it to thehonorableryu@gmail.com ?

[Big Rick Cook]

Re: CWS Discussion: The Next Generation.

I asked Mora the same question about Gjigrajheth's Thorn, if there was any discernible need to give it an origin, and if I'm not mistaken, we both agreed that there wasn't a reason to bother with it.

I have another concept that I came up with about three hours ago that I think may work well for the big 'Gjigrajheth's Keep Battle,' but it would probably be best to have an actual discussion, rather than through email or the forums.

Since you posted only 2 hours ago, I'll assume that no one's sent Mora's latest addition, and I'll have it sent in a matter of minutes.

EDIT: Sent.

[Big Rick Cook]

Re: CWS Discussion: The Next Generation.

The book-format version of the story hit 300 pages today, nothing else of interesting import to report.

[Big Rick Cook]

Re: CWS Discussion: The Next Generation.

I'll be posting up the addition shortly, but before that, I'm going to post up everything I've worked out for the idea I mentioned yesterday. Mora has the basic idea of it already, since I could talk to him yesterday, but here's the extent of what I've done:

***
Okay, the basic idea was that Gjigrajheth has people living on his island (which I'm thinking should be a landmass the size of, say, 1/4 of Australia or so). It's been mentioned in the story that people have searched the southern seas, but none who have done so have come back. The thought struck me that some people might have actually survived, but became stranded or some such thing on what was actually Gjigrajheth's island. If something like this had happened, back when Gjigrajheth was still new of form and still settling into his ancient castle (which for some reason, I thought was like 300 years or so ago from the current point of the story), that he could have formulated a plan to use these humans.

The idea furthered itself when I had decided that with Gjigrajheth's monster-making capabilities, and with his ability to control the monsters, he could impress those stranded on his island, and they could praise him as a god of some sort. Instead of allowing the monsters to kill these people, he uses humanity's superstitious nature to become their 'god,' effectively creating a colony of willing worshippers that will abide his every whim. These people, under Gjigrajheth's 'loving protection,' would be free from the monsters' attacks, and they would live happily under a god manifested on earth. If this had happened two or three hundred years before the main events of the story, it's acceptable that the population of a normal-sized vessel could amount to a nice-sized human colony, resulting in a formidable army of humans that the attacking party would never suspect.

***
I looked back into the story at things that have happened already, and decided this could coincide with at least two things that have been mentioned.
1. In the meeting between Guillermo and Gjigrajheth, Gjigrajheth claims himself a god, as far as humans are concerned. Quote below.

“You…” Guillermo fumed, “You are the one that controlled the monsters that attacked the airship?! You BASTARD. People suffered because of you, good people. You think you’re god?!”

“Yes, as far as creatures such as you are concerned,” Gjigrajheth shot back, with a grin.

This would create a second meaning behind Gigli's words, which I think would be kind of cool.

2. In Magik's last addition, there is a dream sequence where people are fighting cooperatively with monsters. This dream is a conjured image by Melisande, who would obviously know of such things, and she might have purposely thrown them in as foresight, instead of just for the purpose of haunting Sasha's dreams. Quote below.

Worse still, he saw other men clad in dark robes wielding sharp sabers working with the beasts.

This is probably where the idea originated from, at least subconsciously, but I actually came up with it while reading a fantasy novel at work. What's weird is that there was nothing even remotely close to this idea during the part I happened to be reading. But I digress.

***
Moving along, there are two things that would have to happen if this idea were honed to acceptability and eventually implemented into the story. The first is the surprise attack by Gigli's human army after Hardin's forces set about themselves the task of assaulting Gigli's castle. I really like this facet, because it's a believable yet surprising twist to the big battle, but something that can still be overcome in the end, but especially so if Magnus and his own army eventually come to the aid of Hardin's forces. The bit about Magnus is something I just tacked on, because I'm unsure as to the exact use that Magnus will be making in the story with an army, or what size an army he may have.

The second thing that will result is an explanation by Gjigrajheth as to the origins of his human army. This in itself doesn't have to be long-winded or drawn out, but I also thought it would create an interesting conversation wherein Gigli could claim that his human colony is the better for his godlike status, because he treats them fairly and doesn't kill them. At the same time, it will be brought out that humans would eventually either be enslaved or snuffed from existence under Gigli's ultimate rule, because without a human opposition to drive Gigli, there is no need to keep a colony of humans that may someday rebel against him.

***
I think that's everything I have so far. Expound, expand, destroy, remark, criticize, whathaveyou. I won't be at all hurt or mad if this idea ends up being for naught and unworkable in the context of the story.

EDIT: Upon starting the editing for today, it became apparent that people were not on Gjigrajheth's island, because Magik says so in his description of the island. This is disheartening to say the least, and I hate to redo/remove anything else of Magik's, since we already decided to remove Talus's backstory flashback. I don't know, I guess I'll just have to wait and see what everyone else thinks. I should probably email this post to Magik to get his attention post-haste. I'm going to do that now.

EDIT X2: Here's the quote in question from the story, which is part of Magik's 4th addition to the story, what is the 86th overall addition. Sentence in bold is the one that effectively kills my idea.

Outside of the fortress were tight thickets of tall trees and briers that would hinder any man or woman that tried to traverse on foot through them. Men and women, though, did not inhabit this island. Rather, the isle was littered with monsters, from the tall ogres that trudged through the flats of the mountain to the spiny imps that could easily maneuver through the brush. Terrifying numbers of monsters migrated toward this location daily, as if sensing that this was to be the place in which the dual fates of humans and monsters would be decided upon.

I hadn't initially thought there a statement that mankind didn't live on the island in this addition. My first inclination is to scrap the whole idea I came up with, as back-editing the current additions to make way for some new idea is something I feel shouldn't be done unless there's a good reason. I'm interested to see how you guys feel about it, though.

[John Mora]

Re: CWS Discussion: The Next Generation.

If this had happened two or three hundred years before the main events of the story, it's acceptable that the population of a normal-sized vessel could amount to a nice-sized human colony, resulting in a formidable army of humans that the attacking party would never suspect.

That's assuming the ship wasn't a sausage party.

And I think the whole idea credits Gigli with too much mercy.

And as you said, it's pretty much canon that only monsters and such inhabit (say it with me) Monster Island.

And it's not that surprising if a) the authors are the only ones reading the story and b) we discuss it openly in the discussion topic.

[Magik]

Re: CWS Discussion: The Next Generation.

Seafarers and adventurers, this was just before the time of airship technology, enjoyed expanding the maritime geography of the world atlas. There was some rivalry between the leaderships of Anteron and Jugere as to who could chart the most islands and continents outside of their own, but it was Joyt, strangely, that proved the most aquatically adept. Joytian explorers quickly charted out the atlas that was hence used for centuries. Joyt received much acclaim, but it was short-lived. Soon afterwards, airship technology was under development throughout the rest of the world. With so many untapped resources on the large continent and the small islands nearest it, there was little need for outward expansion. On the large continent, each governing body developed its own policy of manifest destiny, and, although some other continents were further explored for their resources, the series of territorial wars on the large continent left the rest of the world mostly forgotten, or at least ignored.

Besides, after all of the bad luck Joyt suffered in its nautical escapades, who would want to waste resources on finding savage-inhabited islands of no use?

While charting the world—it took nearly two decades before scholars and seafarers were convinced that the atlas was complete—Joyt has lost over two dozen vessels. One continent in particular proved incredibly hazardous. South of present day Kolika Bay was a moderately sized landmass. The island was resistant of visitors, surrounding itself with dangerous monoliths that created strong currents guiding ships into passages too narrow. Most voyagers were content to go around the coast of the island, at a distance, and estimate its specific placement on the maps.

No one was ever aware of the civilized structures on the island until airships that could efficiently traverse across the sea were perfected. Some landed on the island. Explorers eventually gave up on the island that was deemed to thick with flora and malevolent fauna (it was densely inhabited by monsters by this time) to be inhabitable. No human being was ever found on the island. Researches assume that a civilization once existed there (as evidenced by some domestic structures that were discovered) but that it had long since died out, probably as a result of the mysterious influx of monsters.

Researches had no way of knowing that an underground population did survive on the island, alongside with the monsters. Some Joytian adventurers that crashed into the rocks around the island survived the wreck and floated on debris until they reached the island shores. These unlucky men, and some women, would not receive the swift death of their comrades. They were instead stranded on a monster-infested island with an even more malicious presence than that of the ogres. Gjigrajheth learned much of the outside world through observation of these survivors. He enjoyed watching as they starved and struggled and displayed the deliciously macabre acts of violence against each other. He came to know true human nature; the essence of the human soul. Slowly, he crept in on their lives. He conditioned them by offering protection from the monsters in return for their “spiritual” (such a lovely human term, he decided) devotion. When they resisted, he would have some of them devoured until they eventually caved in. As other survivors found themselves trapped on the island, they were either assimilated into this way of life or they were sacrificed for their obstreperous refusals to submit.

As time went on, Gjigrajheth perfected his “garden.” His disciples were bred and trained to kill. As the generations passed, the reverent fear transformed into traditional fidelity; a church was on the verge of being formed. This was to be a church of god-reliant warriors that could cooperate with monsters and live in the most extreme of environments. Individualism died; intellect was obsolete; philosophy was filtered through Gjigrajheth’s intentions. They became one mass that breathed only for Gjigrajheth. In time, as his garden became a full-grown orchard, Gjigrajheth concocted a plan for his acolytes, a purpose. A new doctrine became canon among the survivors: they were, one day, to fulfill their purpose by leading a crusade in the name of Gjigrajheth.

------


Needless to say, Rick, I like the idea.

If it is decided to go through with this idea, you could change my addition comme ça:



Outside of the fortress were tight thickets of tall trees and briers that would hinder any [ordinary] man or woman that tried to traverse on foot through them. [Ordinary] [m]en and women, though, did not inhabit this island. Rather, the isle was [mostly] littered with monsters, from the tall ogres that trudged through the flats of the mountain to the spiny imps that could easily maneuver through the brush. Terrifying numbers of monsters migrated toward this location daily, as if sensing that this was to be the place in which the dual fates of humans and monsters would be decided upon.

Or something to that effect. That way, it leaves the story open to this new development, even foreshadowing it a bit, but it doesn’t give it away too early. I doubt a “real” reader would even dwell on the word “mostly” in there.

And, even if there never is a “real” reader, it’s still a twist in terms of the plot. Despite the fact that anyone who sees this now knows about it. Besides, it’s all about how we pull it off (assuming it is even implemented).

Lastly, of course, my exercise in time-wasting at the beginning of this post is nothing more than a five-minute hypothesis, not to be taken as part of the story (though, is that about what you had in mind, Rick?)

[Big Rick Cook]

Re: CWS Discussion: The Next Generation.

That's a really great way to get my point across in terms of actual story, Magik! I'm definitely glad I emailed you to get your input on this as soon as possible.

Now, the way your proposed edit goes is perfectly fine with me. And I'm glad you like the idea. The point that Mora made about Gjigrajheth being too merciful didn't stick in my mind because I hadn't fleshed the details out, but the way you theorized it, is pretty much what I was heading towards. I hadn't yet committed to paper the idea that Gjigrajheth used forceful means to exercise his 'godship,' nor had I written down that it was how he learned of human nature, but they were both definitely floating around up there in my noggin. Again I say

Once we hear back from Mora on the subject, and from Ryu, we'll have a much better idea of which direction this is going to go.

It isn't going to interfere with any major plot points that we've planned, is it? While I was jotting down my notes (yes, I actually wrote this stuff down instead of typing it away into a Word file at first), I kept thinking that I needed to make sure it would avoid messing up key story points that we've pretty much decided upon. I'm hoping that I, and now Magik, have succeeded in doing so.

[John Mora]

Re: CWS Discussion: The Next Generation.

Okay, seeing it put like that might make it workable. Especially since if these warriors attacked first, it would give Hardin a (better) reason to go to Monster Island.

[Caciss]

Re: CWS Discussion: The Next Generation.

.

[Big Rick Cook]

Re: CWS Discussion: The Next Generation.

Hi, Caciss! Thanks for the period!

[Caciss]

Re: CWS Discussion: The Next Generation.

I MEANT TO SAY SOMETHING, BUT I DECIDED AGAINST IT!

[John Mora]

Re: CWS Discussion: The Next Generation.

I MEANT TO CALL YOUR MOM LAST NIGHT BUT DECIDED AGAINST IT

[Caciss]

Re: CWS Discussion: The Next Generation.

YOU REALLY HURT HER FEELING TOO, YOU JERK.

[TheHonorableRyu]

Re: CWS Discussion: The Next Generation.

That's a lot of pontification! About the humans on Monster Island: I'm fine with it. Instead of simply the validating emotional approval old Gigli would get from worshippers, he should also be keeping them around for a more practical purposes, too, like employing them as slaves for gathering resources, building temples/fortresses, etc. In turn they would get protection from the monsters, a god and a Cause.

My computer has not been hooked up all this week until recently, but right now my addition's at around 2000 words plus notes...and growing!