Wrong, or too right?

[MagusMartovich]

I'm in the middle of playing through an old game (Shining Force: Legacy of Great Intention, Genesis/Mega Drive) and I got to thinking: do most players find it more fun if a game has characters/items/bosses that aren't a requirement to join/find/fight or more of a cheap way to make the game longer?

I am now toying with the idea to (possibly) make it possible to play through my entire game as only the starting hero, and I'm even thinking about making the final boss accessible throughout the entire game. A "new" way to play the game could be a low level "can I beat it yet?!" or even a solo run. I'm also debating about wether or not to put in random treasures/events that do nothing at all either way, or possibly just fill up all the remaining item spaces that I have left over with things that "sound" important (Boss Key, Holy Onix, Part B-2...) but are totally useless.

I ask because I know that in games that have "useless" treasures (Just about all the recent FF games, and/or anyhting Square ever made) I always wonder if the programers made the code with the item itself as a variable or if they just threw it into your inventory so that you could check and say, "Yup, got that," and not wonder how your party mysteriously produces some futuristic componnents out of the air, or (on the other hand) go through the entire game wondering, "What the fudge is the 'Crown' used for?!"

[Hikari no Kaze]

Re: Wrong, or too right?

Sounds interesting...

But also sounds like a garbage game...

I do like the concept, but it seems sorta... something.

Yeah, something.

If the final boss is accessible throughout the game, couldn't you just beat the game in the first minute if you wanted to? And if he's too powerful to defeat in the opening moments, then why have the battle available during the opening moments?

[MagusMartovich]

Re: Wrong, or too right?

Okay, I'll take your harsh criticism... but I won't like it!

There are several games where the final boss is always only moments away for the players to test their skills against (Chrono Trigger comes to mind) and as (I always try) players seem to like to collect everything in a game as opposed to simply beat the game as fast as possible (espically in an RPG style game) there's that too.

On top of those very good reasons, players miss quite a bit of the story: charging the final boss right off the bat, and should I get really ambitious, I will make "marker events" that actually change the ending, possibly making the player decide between good/evil in the process and tweaking the ending accordingly (Ogre Battle, Star Wars...)

AND, as the final boss, yes, he would (more than likely) be pretty strong and unbeatable at the begining, which is why I was thinking about making my game continuable from the begining once the final boss was beaten, thus allowing players to see all the different endings, should they feel the need to play through the game a second, third, or whatever time.

In addition, having actual items (not treasures) that may/may not have a purpose would also bring a bit of strategy into the game, as players would need to delagte item slots for not only equipment/healing/boosting items, but also the add-ons that I could make a "custom shop" for. Debating on which might be a better item to hang onto drags more experimentation into the game and may or may not make for a better playing experience.

Since you made me spell everything out for you, I'll also go ahead and let you know that the entire purpose of creating this thread was so that I could better guage the audience before diving in with a game that nobody liked because of its playability, and have everyone boycott, not even give the plot or ideas a second chance.

[Hikari no Kaze]

Re: Wrong, or too right?

Oh no!!! I was harsh?

My apologies. I deserve every bit of that bitter sarcasm.

Either way, that idea appeals to me more that I know more about it. It sounds like... more than just something now.

Yep, definitely more than just something.

Something interesting... something fun?

Your reason for creating this thread is very... logical. Or something.

First impressions can be crucial:

Never judge a book by its cover, but just in case, always make your cover good.

[MagusMartovich]

Re: Wrong, or too right?

Oopse! No, you're not harsh, and my "Bitter sarcasm" is just part of the total package that is me: really, ask anybody here.

I have also as a result of being here and dealing with certain Pavvies (not naming names) come to adopt a "quick first post, then if needed, extremly detailed second post" process and its usually a pretty good one.

I also didn't mean to offend, and I am quite happy that you like the idea, but as I have tried to make clear, I'm still formulating the idea. As I am stealing a lot of features from other mainstream RPGs as well as some of the design tricks that people have been so kinda as to divulge (Game+ rocks!!!) I'm trying extremly hard to make the game with a very original story, eliminating as amny cliches as possible, while at the same time, not alienating possible players due to the game being so unfamiliar...

Then again, it is RM3... X(

[Hikari no Kaze]

Re: Wrong, or too right?

With good explanations, no game is too unfamiliar! I sometimes steal from other games a LOT too! I will stay as tuned as possible - this is definitely something worth following.

Well, at least you can lots of story with RM3...

NOTE: My vote is for all of the above because they combine to make some great things. I do not necessarily like each element on its own.

[ParanoiasBestFriend]

Re: Wrong, or too right?

Stealins' bad, mmm,kay. And you don't like the criticism cause you can't
handle the truth.

Anyway, I wouldn't use the system that allows you to rush straight to the final boss, because it'll probably throw off some of the players into thinking that the game isn't very developed, and they will think it is really bad.

Replaying from the beginning has some really good potential, considering that a lot of people like to lvl. up their characters, or like to replay games they like, but don't like to go through the whole stinkin lvl. up process, so thats pretty cool.

Exchanging items for oober weapons and whatnot is a really good idea too, but raises the question on how to do it. Will you make only certain items have the ability to be exchanged, or make it so a whole bundle of items be exchanged for a item(maybe even base the quality of the item you get based on the quality of the items you exchanged for it).

[Ryner]

Re: Wrong, or too right?

Straight foward games are a thing of the past. There's always going to be a market for Final Fantasy or Dragon Quest, but the wave of the future for RPGs are the Elder Scrolls, Fable, KOTOR, etc. I think the RPG Maker community is going to have to eventually evolve accordingly. The problem right now is that RPG Maker 3 is a gigantic de-evolution spray.

That said, I'd really like to see more people coming up with ideas for open-ended games. So yes, I think a lot of your ideas are a step in the right direction. One thing I'd have to advise against is your idea for items that appear to be important but are nothing but vendor trash. You'll have your players keeping these useless items for the whole game because they think there will eventually be a use for them.

[Perversion]

Re: Wrong, or too right?

I think the RPG Maker community is going to have to eventually evolve accordingly. The problem right now is that RPG Maker 3 is a gigantic de-evolution spray.

That said, I'd really like to see more people coming up with ideas for open-ended games.

Not to toot my own horn, Ryner, but....

http://www.pavilionboards.com/forum/...ead.php?t=6546

[Ryner]

Re: Wrong, or too right?

Not to toot my own horn, Ryner, but....

Dude, you toot your own horn more than I do...

And that's saying something.

[Perversion]

Re: Wrong, or too right?

I never thought I'd EVER see this message, but...

You must spread some reputation around before giving it to Ryner again

And it was gonna be pos rep, just because.

[1ce]

Re: Wrong, or too right?

I really like the idea of facing the end boss at any time in the game.

[ErikaFuzzbottom]

Re: Wrong, or too right?

I am now toying with the idea to (possibly) make it possible to play through my entire game as only the starting hero

In my experience, turn-based RPGs where you only have one party member aren't very fun. Not so bad if you start out with one and gain another not long into the game, but only one the whole time? No.

I ask because I know that in games that have "useless" treasures (Just about all the recent FF games, and/or anyhting Square ever made) I always wonder if the programers made the code with the item itself as a variable or if they just threw it into your inventory so that you could check and say, "Yup, got that," and not wonder how your party mysteriously produces some futuristic componnents out of the air, or (on the other hand) go through the entire game wondering, "What the fudge is the 'Crown' used for?!"

Oh, you mean like "pendants" and stuff? I just figured it's random things that are collected for fun, or in some cases just random knicknacks the characters are holding onto. I wouldn't have a problem with these if they were key items and there weren't too many of them.

[Hikari no Kaze]

Re: Wrong, or too right?

I don't really see the point in pointless items... pun somewhat intended.
I mean, in FFXII the "Godslayer's Badge is" sorta like your... trophy or something? It serves a slight, insignificant, inconsequential use, but a use nonetheless. I could see the tiny point in that.

The "Stuffed Cress" from Tales of Phantasia, however? It is:

• Useless.
• Pointless.
• Optional.
• Ugly.

I despise the thing. There is NO LOGICAL REASON for its existence. That is a "bad pointless item" in my opinion.

[1ce]

Re: Wrong, or too right?

^You'd hate Legend of Mana then. It has so many items and a good majority of them are rather useless.