You know what'd REALLY stimulate the economy!?

[Crimson Knight]

Having everyone lower their ****in' fees by 30%. EVERYONE. A nationwide, permanent clearance SALE. Then everyone would get up and start buying more **** again. Not some stupid SSI payment that someone would spend once. The only reason the US is even in this fake mess(the popular term is "looming recession" but it's really a comeuppance) is because greed's price finally caught up and rung up on the bill.

Sometimes, I think we're the only ones stuck in our fake-ass world of materialism.

And you know what else ticks me off right now? I can't play Halo 3 online because the Heroic downloadable content pack is required to play most online modes, and my friend doesn't feel like purchasing it.

[DK]

Re: You know what'd REALLY stimulate the economy!?

Didn't that map pack just become free?

[Kefka Jr.]

Re: You know what'd REALLY stimulate the economy!?

These are both problems.

[Ryner]

Re: You know what'd REALLY stimulate the economy!?

If the cost of everything went down then just about every person in America would have their wages reduced.

[JPS]

Re: You know what'd REALLY stimulate the economy!?

the US is even in this fake mess(the popular term is "looming recession" but it's really a comeuppance)

Wow, you haven't been keeping up with things huh?

Not saying it in a bad way, but I have no idea how you can say we are in an "comeuppance" when the stock market falls more everyday and the housing market has crashed, not to mention companies are laying people off by the thousands.

[The Toecutter]

Re: You know what'd REALLY stimulate the economy!?

The economy doesn't need stimulation, it needs to contract. We are consuming too many of the planet's resources. That being said, with the top 1% accounting for 32% of the world's resource consumption and owning 40% of the world's wealth, while the bottom 90% consume less than 30% of resource consumption, there's PLENTY of room for economic growth for the bottom 90% if you have all the contraction occur in the top 1%.

We need ways to maintain the same living standard while consuming less to do so. This will make our lives much easier, meaning less work for the same level of sustinence, comfort, and entertainment. Unfortunately, trhese methods have either been supressed, legislated out of existence, or made impossible to fulfill via the tax system, as having people spend less is not conducive to maximizing revenue to corporations and government.

With peak oil's effects becoming more pronounced, our economy is unlikely to ever recover to the way it was before 911. Unfortunately, the super-rich are still seeing gains even in spite of everyone else losing their assets, and this will continue to be the case until our current economic system is either severely altered or destroyed outright. Those in power will use any means to keep this current economic system in place, including but not limited to constant warfare, social control policies, increasing tax burdens on the lower and middle classes, fascism, conquest of other nations, ect.

[Crimson Knight]

Re: You know what'd REALLY stimulate the economy!?

Wow, you haven't been keeping up with things huh?

Not saying it in a bad way, but I have no idea how you can say we are in an "comeuppance" when the stock market falls more everyday and the housing market has crashed, not to mention companies are laying people off by the thousands.

And that's the problem. The stock market falls because of financial turmoil, People are getting laid off because of costs, companies are being forced to use alternatives if they want to profit. The housing market is pretty bad right now, because you guessed it, costs, specifically new home creation declining, because of the lack of home purchasing declining as well.

While the lower classes suffer even more, the higher classes are running out of options to keep themselves afloat. Those in great power who have abused it will soon be cornered, and shown the results of their abuse. When the dust settles, there won't be much difference in class if at all, as everyone will be in the same boat.

A great shift is occurring.

Toecutter, I was just saying the current stimulus plan is stupid, and it's just a ploy to make the lower classes push the cars of the higher classes in the future, IMO.

[Vonwert]

Re: You know what'd REALLY stimulate the economy!?

The problem stems from outsourcing and wondering why no one has any jobs. Then comes the War on Terror which caused a direct rise in gas prices as well as China and India's boom.

[Karr Lord of Chaos]

Re: You know what'd REALLY stimulate the economy!?

america peaked prior to 911, and now its seeing the return end of the curve, into its decline. its all a cycle, and in the end things will become more even and stable, but the market over inflation will be fixed. you can only over extend your market so far before it snaps back to reality. the technology sector found this out the hard way now its the rest of america that will realize it too.

of course some things appear to not be helping, or excelerating some of the more damaging effects, but otherwise its expected.

[The Toecutter]

Re: You know what'd REALLY stimulate the economy!?

And in spite of all of this, sales of luxury yachts, multi-million dollar mansions, and automobiles by the likes of Maybach, Bentley, and Rolls Royce keep rising.

[American Hero]

Re: You know what'd REALLY stimulate the economy!?

I tell you what the problem is. We are to damn dependent on other countries for our resources, when everything we need is right here.

[The Toecutter]

Re: You know what'd REALLY stimulate the economy!?

We are also too damned dependent on resources, when we could very easily be doing much more with much less...

[Sampson]

Re: You know what'd REALLY stimulate the economy!?

While the lower classes suffer even more, the higher classes are running out of options to keep themselves afloat. Those in great power who have abused it will soon be cornered, and shown the results of their abuse. When the dust settles, there won't be much difference in class if at all, as everyone will be in the same boat.

A great shift is occurring.

Afraid not. The rich will be richer. The poor will be poorer. And the middle class will join the poor.

Humanity has always had upper and lower classes; the middle class is a relatively new invention.

[Dusk Raven]

Re: You know what'd REALLY stimulate the economy!?

Not always, I'd hope. I don't know about when humanity started, of course. But at least then you didn't have ultra-rich or ultra-poor. Money's existed for a long time, though. As long as there is money, though, it can be accumulated. So there'll be rich and poor.

[Wavelength]

Re: You know what'd REALLY stimulate the economy!?

Materialism is not the problem, nor is the rich-poor divide. We certainly don't need to be looking inward for resources. Offshoring (I think this is what you meant, Von--most outsourcing is done domestically) is not a problem in itself; it is a symptom of a bigger trend and it presents as many opportunities as it does threats. And the economy needs to expand, not contract (although Terr is right in a lot of ways and it really needs to be done without turning to oil).

The stock market hit record highs this past summer, and it's fallen well off those highs mainly because of subprime mortgage concerns, commodity prices, and flaws in the banking sector. I'd be happy to expand on the how and the why if anyone wants me to. I believe the market will hit record highs again within two years. Not everything will be a winner, but that's why you invest in indexes.

US Currency, however, could be a problem. I've been putting more and more of my savings into various plays based on foreign currency. I don't claim to be an expert on the topic, but productivity globally is improving much more than US productivity, so those countries' money should buy relatively more than they would have several years ago. Furthermore, the Bush Administration has been pursuing all the wrong policies, encouraging consumption over savings (and deficit-spending like there's no tomorrow), thus putting our economy into the hands of (domestic and foreign) lenders and consistently weakening our dollar. The Tax Rebate is a great example of why we're in this sticky situation in the first place.

I don't know why all the analysts keep calling our economy a "looming recession;" the way I see it, we're in a very real recession right now. It's not going to be "fixed" until we find a way provide better goods and services than the rest of the world (education), produce more with less like Terr said (alternative energy plus offshoring), or bring the entire world's standards up to the current First World's (incentives to foreign investment and development).

EDIT: I want to apologize because I'm being a bit confrontational in that first paragraph, especially. But I saw several statements throughout the thread that seem to be the product of either misinformation or propaganda, attributing some of the economy's problems to clearly incorrect causes.