Ken Levine discusses Bioshock's "stupid story" at the GDC

[Perversion]

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Really insightful and informative, and his panel (keynote?) comments can be used by the RPGM community to craft better games. I think I need to begin playing Bioshock sooner rather than later.

[Karr Lord of Chaos]

Re: Ken Levine discusses Bioshock's "stupid story" at the GDC

im going to pull 3 very important quotes out of this article.

absolutely a great article and good insight into how to make a great game story.

"The bad news for storytellers is that nobody cares about your stupid story," Levine said. "Nobody cares about the thing you've been writing in your math notebook since you were in 11th grade about the dark lord Lagon and the fifth period of the Elven uprising, and all that crap you've been working on forever. I know that's hard to hear because you care about it a lot, but the audience is not your mom; they have no reason to be predisposed positively to the things you've been thinking about, no matter how detailed or lovingly you crafted it."

-this is the cardinal sin of rpg makers. i found that i generally didnt give a **** about someones story and tended to skip through scenes if they didnt interest me. this is a hard fact to swallow for a new "developer," and you soon begin to realize that the whole package will have to sell, that even a good well thought out story isnt going to propel your game to fame. even that some people will have no interest in your story, regardless of how much time you pour into it. the story is only one element that must hold the players interest, if its the only element that does then your game will flop to a great majority.

"It wasn't enough to have a pared-down story; it still had to be told well. Levine said the story had to work for three different levels of players. It had to work for gamers who only cared about Madden NFL or Halo 3 and just wanted to shoot stuff. For gamers who get a little deeper into their games, Levine said there was a supporting cast of characters and interesting concerns that they can follow along with, such as Fontaine's uprising and Tenenbaum's experiments with the Little Sisters."

-this is the second grand mistake rpg developers make. they make the story one dimensional, either filled with suffocating facts that bore the hell out of general players or make the world so void of detail that players find themselves confused as to whats acually going on. a good game story has to be divided into three parts as stated here, the first is basic gameplay for the sake of a game (i guess minigames is a good example of this), the second being a decent but not overly detailed story (good story with enjoy details to make it understandable and interesting), and the third being details that are optional for the player to find if he really wants them (the extras that fill in questions or gaps, or add deeper spins). this gives all 3 types of players the kind of enjoyment they want and allows them to dig as shallow or as deep into your game as they wish. relying on one side will mean those who care only for the other side will have no interest in your game.

"In order to create a proper sense of mystery, Levine said storytellers need to strike a balancing act between asking questions and providing answers. Questions are inherently more interesting than answers, he said, but a game needs to provide answers sparingly to prevent the audience from getting frustrated and giving up on it."

-this is yet another key part thats missed in rpgs. many games have an answer for everything, explaining each part exasperatingly and unnecessarily. in my early writings i did this before i realized that you could allude to something without acually explaining it, or leave a question that was better left without answer. questions can generate interest, leaving the player curious to find the solution. answers provide clarity or anchor for more difficult elements.

[marcus]

Re: Ken Levine discusses Bioshock's "stupid story" at the GDC

[rant]

Man, I cannot stand Ken Levine because the guy does nothing but blow hot gas out of his ass. Don't get me wrong; I loved BioShock and it's pretty much my favorite game of the decade so far but every time I hear Levine prattle on about how much of a genius he is I start boiling with rage. This guy actually has the audacity to say "NO ONE CARES WHAT WE WRITERS." False modesty and self-depreciation like this make me SEETH.

Before BioShock was even recognized as something GOOD, every interview with Levine basically boiled down to "I want to make a game with choices. I want you to feel like you have a choice when dealing with Little Sisters lol." The game comes out and all of your choices boil down to "KILL LITTLE SISTER? DONT KILL LITTLE SISTER?" Both endings revolve entirely around whether or not you killed EVEN ONE Little Sister or whether or not you didn't.

THESE ARE LIFE CHOICES

Levine's not as bad as Warren Spector who rambled on about how Deus Ex was the second coming of God (no pun intended) and that your choices in game were something far more than "kill this guy or don't kill this guy." Deus Ex won dozens of awards for good measure, but it was a huge disappointment to know that your choices were "who lives and who dies" and all three endings could be obtained during the final 20 minutes of gameplay.

If you ask me, game developers should be duct taped and never allowed to speak about their "big ideas" and "flowery video game idealism." Whenever I hear these blowhards talking about how revolutionary they are it makes me want to vomit and break the game disc. I'm glad I never read a single preview or interview before BioShock came out because it probably would have spoiled the game for me HARD.

[/rant]

[Perversion]

Re: Ken Levine discusses Bioshock's "stupid story" at the GDC

Hehe....stay FAR away from any article that includes Peter Molyneaux's name in its title, then.

[marcus]

Re: Ken Levine discusses Bioshock's "stupid story" at the GDC

Hehe....stay FAR away from any article that includes Peter Molyneaux's name in its title, then.

Molyneaux, Will Wright, Levine, and Spector are the four guys I refuse to listen to because they talk about how large their members are way too much. I enjoy playing all the games they develop and I can't deny that they have good design practices (integrating story into gameplay was my favorite part of BioShock) but at every press meeting, conference, and interview it's always "I WANT THE PLAYER TO UNDERSTAND MY DEEPEST DARKEST FEELINGS! I WANT THE GAME TO ANALYZE THE WAY YOU THINK AND BEAM THOSE THOUGHTS INTO MY BRAIN! I WANT THIS GAME TO DIVE INTO YOUR SOUL AND WRENCH AT YOUR EMOTIONS SO THAT YOU CARE ABOUT THESE MASS OF POLYGONS BECAUSE I AM INTELLIGENT AND AWESOME AND BETTER THAN YOU."

EDIT: I just realized you have a Jimmy Corrigan avatar. Cool.

EDIT 2: I forgot to add in Gabe Newell. He's not as bad as the other guys but he's up there.

EDIT 3: I forgot Kojima as well. I can't really blame him for talking out his ass because he likes talking... a lot but his diehard fans take everything he says way out of contrast. There's nothing worse than going on an MGS board and seeing someone post an exerpt from Kojima's blog about how everytime he passes a rock he stops and thinks to himself "HOW DID THIS ROCK COME TO BE???"

[Perversion]

Re: Ken Levine discusses Bioshock's "stupid story" at the GDC

"I WANT THE PLAYER TO UNDERSTAND MY DEEPEST DARKEST FEELINGS! I WANT THE GAME TO ANALYZE THE WAY YOU THINK AND BEAM THOSE THOUGHTS INTO MY BRAIN! I WANT THIS GAME TO DIVE INTO YOUR SOUL AND WRENCH AT YOUR EMOTIONS SO THAT YOU CARE ABOUT THESE MASS OF POLYGONS BECAUSE I AM INTELLIGENT AND AWESOME AND BETTER THAN YOU."

EDIT: I just realized you have a Jimmy Corrigan avatar. Cool.

Hehe...I just quoted you as you were adding your edit. I did not see it in the initial post, but I saw it in the quote.

But, unfortunately, I think you just held up a mirror to me when I discuss my "Series" games, especially A Series Aside.

[Karr Lord of Chaos]

Re: Ken Levine discusses Bioshock's "stupid story" at the GDC

no caps with bold, please!

[Chad]

Re: Ken Levine discusses Bioshock's "stupid story" at the GDC

Will Wright can talk all he wants. There is a reason he does consistently well at the design challenge at GDC.

[Magus]

Re: Ken Levine discusses Bioshock's "stupid story" at the GDC

I never even heard of Ken Levine until Bioshock came around. But I agree. No one gives a **** about your stupid story/play/movie/song/poem/article/painting/drawing.

If he makes you seethe so much what the **** does David Jaffe and Itagaki make you do?

[Crimson Knight]

Re: Ken Levine discusses Bioshock's "stupid story" at the GDC

At least the eastern guys have something profound to say with their "HAHA I EARN MONEY FROM DOING WHAT I LOVE AND YOU DON'T BECAUSE PEOPLE THINK I'M A GENIUS, HAHA WHAT A BUNCH OF IDOITS".

Us americans just blow a lot of hot air, when we know we're playing an industry that'll probably collapse under its own weight(again), and we'll be poor.

[Red Dragon]

Re: Ken Levine discusses Bioshock's "stupid story" at the GDC

At least the eastern guys have something profound to say with their "HAHA I EARN MONEY FROM DOING WHAT I LOVE AND YOU DON'T BECAUSE PEOPLE THINK I'M A GENIUS, HAHA WHAT A BUNCH OF IDOITS".

[Alzar]

Re: Ken Levine discusses Bioshock's "stupid story" at the GDC

one time i made a game with a really stupid story but people liked it

[Ryner]

Re: Ken Levine discusses Bioshock's "stupid story" at the GDC

Cause it was funny.

That dog just pooped.

[Karr Lord of Chaos]

Re: Ken Levine discusses Bioshock's "stupid story" at the GDC

the story was so bad that it was great. it was simple, it had character, it was filled with many early ground breaking stuff, plus it had little quips to entertain us. of course it was a smash hit. story doesnt have to be a huge epic or be filled with billions of intricacies to become great. simple and to the point often works the best.

look at eternal retardia, how much of a classic that was.