Sci-fi (Do Androids dream...) help needed.

[pinkymadigan]

ACK!
I humble myself before you pavilionites. I need help.

I've been reading Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep for Sci-Fi class and having trouble with the symbolism and themes. Mostly, because I hate symbolism and themes. I've read the book and many passages several times over already, and though I know it's full of symbolism (toad, owls, animals, electric animals, androids, Mercerism, Buster Friendly, kipple, etc), I am pretty much clueless as to the specifics about the symbolism.

I assume that kipple is either apathy or death. Animals (in general) could be morality, but I need something a little more solid. The death of the owls I think is the loss of wisdom post world war terminus or the lack of wisdom that led to it? Oh yeah, there's something in the whole spider getting it's legs torn off, and it's either painfully obvious and I'm looking for something deeper, or it's deeper than I understand.

Meh, kinda stretching things there. Any help on clarifying that stuff or help in identifying theme areas (don't need the theme written for me, just guide me in the right direction) I could really use it.

Thanks guys. And gals.

Edit:There could be a better place for this; if so, you are welcome to move it. As is, I don't see a more fitting place, so here it is for now.

[orius]

Re: Sci-fi (Do Androids dream...) help needed.

I dunno maybe you could watch Blade Runner or something.

[pinkymadigan]

Re: Sci-fi (Do Androids dream...) help needed.

Yeah, that's actually required watching too, but it's nothing like the book, so that's kind of irrelevant.

I'm thinking theme areas based on fear of technology we are dependent on or on being content with your lot in life. But both seem underdeveloped to me. Then again, I'm really bad at identifying theme areas. Though once I do, I can write a very well thought out theme statement. It's just the identification of it that is difficult for me. I tend to take things at face value, so I miss the subtleties while I'm reading.

[Stormy]

Re: Sci-fi (Do Androids dream...) help needed.

I'd help you, because I'm very good at the symbolism stuff, but I've never read that book, sorry

[Vanilla Iced Tea]

Re: Sci-fi (Do Androids dream...) help needed.

It's been a little while since I've read the book, but I might be able to help you out.

"Kipple" and "nonkipple" represent chaos and order, respectively. This is pretty obvious, as Isidore says at one point, "Kipple is useless objects, like junk mail or match folders after you use the last match or gum wrappers or yesterday's homeopape. When nobody's around, kipple reproduces itself... There's the First Law of Kipple, 'Kipple drives out nonkipple.'" This seems like a reference to the idea of entropy, which asserts that everything gravitates toward a state of disorder. Throughout the book, you can see that mankind's war (World War Terminus) has caused the world to fall into disorder. In the physical sense, cities have been abandoned and buildings are rapidly decaying. Additionally, the radiation is harming people's minds (Isidore) and requiring them to wear lead codpieces to prevent sterilization. But the disorder also extends past the physical. "Kipple" spreads to the very foundations of human knowledge. Deckard can't even tell if he is actually a human being. On top of that, animals are considered more important than humans, and androids that appear to have humanity are considered worthless. In the end, everything that mankind thinks it knows is uncertain. The book is very postmodern in this regard.

All that I can remember about the spider scene is that it demonstrated that the androids appear to have the morality of small children, so you might question whether or not they deserve to be slaughtered. I don't really know, though.

Eh, sorry if I sort of jump around in logic a lot, but it's the best I can do with the time that I have. I hope it helps some.

[pinkymadigan]

Re: Sci-fi (Do Androids dream...) help needed.

Thanks man that helped a lot. I was a bit off on some of my ideas.

[Vanilla Iced Tea]

Re: Sci-fi (Do Androids dream...) help needed.

It's possible that your interpretation of the symoblism was legitimate, too. I'm just throwing my own reading out there. Do with it what you will. I'm glad that I could be of help, though.

[John Mora]

Re: Sci-fi (Do Androids dream...) help needed.

I'd think animals would represent nature.

[Magus]

Re: Sci-fi (Do Androids dream...) help needed.

I read this a looooooooooong time ago and though it was interesting I don't think it holds a candle to Blade Runner.

Philip K. Dick is more of a pioneer for his ideas and concepts than his actual stories. Such is often the case in the genre.

[pinkymadigan]

Re: Sci-fi (Do Androids dream...) help needed.

Wow, I didn't see Blade Runner before reading the book, but after reading the book, I found the film really boring and hokey. There's really some interesting concepts in the book that the movie totally glosses over.

The fact that the movie is made in a cyberpunk fashion compared to the new wave stylings of the book is really interesting though.

[Ωbright]

Re: Sci-fi (Do Androids dream...) help needed.

Wow, I didn't see Blade Runner before reading the book, but after reading the book, I found the film really boring and hokey.

You DID see the director's cut...RIGHT??

[Karr Lord of Chaos]

Re: Sci-fi (Do Androids dream...) help needed.

You DID see the director's cut...RIGHT??

i saw it and enjoyed it a lot. blade runner is a must see.

[John Mora]

Re: Sci-fi (Do Androids dream...) help needed.

It's almost impossible to see the theatrical edition anymore. All the DVD releases so far have been the director's cut or final cut. The only way I know to get the theatrical is to have a version of the movie pre-90s or get the special edition set that came out over the holidays.

[Ryner]

Re: Sci-fi (Do Androids dream...) help needed.

There's a Sci-Fi class?

Like, in school?

For credit?

[pinkymadigan]

Re: Sci-fi (Do Androids dream...) help needed.

Yeah, Sci-fi counts as a humanities class at DeVry. And rightfully so, if you have a good teacher.

Yeah, I saw the director's cut. I dunno. I just had a hard time not comparing it to the book at every second. It's probably one of those things where you like whatever you see/read first better. I read the book first, so I found it more enjoyable.

I will be watching the final ultimate super dee duper version that just came out as my second viewing (not required, but I need to brush up on some of the different themes presented in the film vs. the book). I'll probably listen to the commentary, maybe I'll enjoy it more after that.