(Kupid 2.0 Announced) Keyboard for PS1 RPG Maker

[Thutmose]

While the Pav' was briefly on VB 4.0, I made a post about an idea for a PS1 RPG Maker text-input device. I guess it seems kind of silly given that the maker is so old, the console is so old, and there are many other options available, but I thought that I would re-post it to see what people think (thanks, Valk for saving this from the dead "upgraded" forums ).

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Originally Posted by Jeroak Nelave
if i didnt have to do the stupid single digit text input...i'm gonna have to check something about that.

Someone with sufficient knowledge of embedded hardware could link a USB keyboard to something like an Arduino that connects to a PS1/2/3 d-pad that connects to a PS1/2/3. With an internal data array that mimics the RPGM keyboard layout, it would be possible to type on the keyboard and have the Arduino translate the keystrokes into the necessary d-pad presses. Include a LCD character screen and a message buffer, and you can type a paragraph out ahead of time, store it in non-volatile internal flash memory, then just press one button on the Arduino unit and have it automatically enter the text for you in a matter of seconds.

Use a removable memory card or flash drive for the non-volatile memory, and you could type your entire script on the computer, save it to a text file on the flash memory, stick it in the Arduino unit, then use a control pad on the unit to select the paragraph you want typed into RPGM, and your text-input problems would be a thing of the past.

Designed properly, it could all be contained in one small unit with a chiclet keyboard, a PS1/PS2 connector, and a rechargeable battery - so it would be plug 'n play.

If I had an extra PS1 laying around, and a copy of RPGM, a few other assorted electronic components, a little cash, maybe I'd try to make one myself. Sounds like a fun challenge.

Though, I've never worked with modding game consoles before. The most I have experience with is some embedded design/programming for RFID sensing and reporting.

In theory, however, it should work. I think I have a PDF around here somewhere that talks about emulating PS controller button presses.

It's been a while since I used RPGM, but it shouldn't be too terribly difficult to pull off, if memory serves me correctly.

I got to thinking about it some more, trying to pin down the price. If I use PICAXE or OEM Basic Stamp, rather than the ludicrously expensive Arduino, and make the circuit board myself (I gotta use those 3 gallons of ferric chloride some time ), and use my junk-box electrical components, the cost of production would be between $20 and $50 per unit.

Maybe once I built one, and figured out the design, I could come up with a cheaper design or figure out how to manufacture them cheaply.

Well, if anyone's interested, let me know.

I'd like to hear what you think.

[Draygone]

I guess it seems kind of silly given that the maker is so old, the console is so old, and there are many other options available

And yet over 1/3 of the active RPGM community still uses it.

Anyway, I think the fact you'd have to pre-type it out before putting it into the game would be a bit too much of an inconvenience for me.

[Thutmose]

Originally Posted by Draygone

And yet over 1/3 of the active RPGM community still uses it.

If they localize Tsukūru 4, then 3 would be abandoned pretty quick. :P

Originally Posted by Draygone

Anyway, I think the fact you'd have to pre-type it out before putting it into the game would be a bit too much of an inconvenience for me.

No - that would be optional. You could type it out ahead of time, or just type it directly into RPG Maker using the keyboard, live.

[Thutmose]

Sorry for the double-post - there was quite a bit of lag and I posted the same thing twice.

[The Toecutter]

The size of market available for your product is going to be too small to make an appreciable profit.

I don't think such a device would see much use. Building it would satisfy an intellectual curiousity, but probably not much else.

If RPG Tsukuru 4 is ever localized, I highly doubt it would be published for the PS1 given how out of date the system is.

That being said, this would be a fun project to work on.

[Thutmose]

Originally Posted by The Toecutter

The size of market available for your product is going to be too small to make an appreciable profit.

I don't think such a device would see much use. Building it would satisfy an intellectual curiousity, but probably not much else.

That being said, this would be a fun project to work on.

Yeah, it would be just for fun. But I can't help but wonder how many people would buy it, if it were reasonably priced.

[Red Dragon]

Take a look at the market of people looking at PS1 accessories would be my first start.

Also, personally. I would want/need a PS3 adapter to it as well because if I wanted to use RPGM it would be on that.

Or instead of a device, a program that would work in conjunction with a emulator device (as I do have the disk).

[Thutmose]

Originally Posted by Red Dragon

Also, personally. I would want/need a PS3 adapter to it as well because if I wanted to use RPGM it would be on that.

Or instead of a device, a program that would work in conjunction with a emulator device (as I do have the disk).

They do sell controller adapters that allow you to use old, wired, Playstation 2 controllers with the PS3. You could hook up this hypothetical device to one of those adapters and it would then work on the PS3. If PS3 controllers weren't so expensive, then I could mod one of those to work with RMXP, I''m sure. But it would be a lot cheaper to use one of the old controllers and just buy the PS3 adapter.

I don't have much experience writing programs for computers, but it should be possible to write one that takes keyboard text-input and translates that to d-pad and button presses in an emulator. Maybe a plugin for the ePSXe emulator, or some such.

[Thutmose]

I Just bought a copy of RPG Maker for the PS1. So I'm going to give this idea a go.

Now I just need to get some cheap controllers off of ebay, some thin wire, and a few parts from SparkFun. I'll finally get to use my Dremel for something other than making rainbow toothpicks!

I will probably try building the prototype with a BS2, for proof-of-concept. Then move to a PICAXE to make the production model (which would be much cheaper than a BS2).

Embedded programming was never my strong-suit and it will likely be a major stumbling block for me; but learning new things is one of life's greatest joys. Once I figure out the programming, the rest should be easy.

I'll give this some more thought, and may post a mock-up/diagram to illustrate my thinking.

EDIT: I found this great resource of information on controller modding: http://www.slagcoin.com/joystick.html. Now I'm really wanting to get started.

EDIT 2: After having done a bit of research, I think I'll go with the simplest design. Basically it will all be built into a PS1 controller (with a $10 adapter, the controller will then be compatible with both the PS3 & a PC for use with an emulator). You would just connect the controller to your PS3 or PC, plug in a PS/2 keyboard (a PS/2 keyboard interface is a lot faster, cheaper, and easier to put together than a USB interface), and that's it!

When you're at the text input screen, you would merely type on the keyboard and the micro-controller inside the PS1 controller would translate each key stroke into the correct d-pad and button depressions to type the letter into RPG Maker for you.

And the PS1 controller would still work like a regular controller which you could use on your PS1, PS2, PS3, or PC with or without the keyboard plugged into it - so no matter what console you have, and even if you don't have one and just use an emulator, this controller would work for you.

Of course, I still have to get the parts together, build the prototype, and do the testing, but I am cautiously optimistic.

EDIT 3: I need to see the RPGM text input screen before I can be certain, but I think that the PICAXE 14M is the right MC to go with. Though, I'd have to get the program written in around 200 lines. Until I see the text input screen, look at the layout, special characters, etc., I can't be certain that the 14M will have enough program memory and scratchpad RAM. I might have to go with the 18X. I have to take available space into consideration, too.

In order to get everything to fit (the MC, the keyboard interface, any other ICs/components), I have to use the smallest workable parts available. The surface-mount ICs take up a lot less space, and I wouldn't need to bother with a circuit board, so if I can manage to solder to their tiny connectors, that would give me plenty of room to work with.

I'm just thinking out loud, here. It helps me to figure everything out. :P

[Perversion]

If you get one of these into more than a prototype, and it's at a reasonable price, I'd probably be willing to buy one. I've always wanted to spend more time with RPGM1, but the no keyboard thing is very off-putting. Plus, community support. Anyone trying to further anything in this community, I like to support.

[Thutmose]

Originally Posted by Perversion

If you get one of these into more than a prototype, and it's at a reasonable price, I'd probably be willing to buy one. I've always wanted to spend more time with RPGM1, but the no keyboard thing is very off-putting. Plus, community support. Anyone trying to further anything in this community, I like to support.

I have been thinking about the cheapest way to do this. Originally, it was looking like it would cost about $100 per controller, but, after doing some research and substituting various components, I think I can get it quite a bit lower. Let me do some figuring:

PICAXE - $~4
PS1 Controller - $~4
PS\2 Keyboard Interface - $20 || $~2 (depending on what I can rig up)
PS3/PC Adapter - $13.95 [optional, buy it if you want to use it on your PS3 or PC]
Misc. Parts (wire, solder, glue) - $~2
Keyboard - Supply your own cheap PS\2 keyboard
Shipping/Handing for above individual parts: $~15

Total: $22-$55

At the moment, it looks like $22 is the cheapest I could make it for, potentially. If you want to use it on a PC or PS3, however, you'd have to buy the $10 adapter ($~3.95 shipping, if ordered online).

The most likely price would be $~37, as the keyboard interface component is the most expensive, and I don't see how to work around that right now.

So, whether or not $~37 is reasonable is up to you. Though, I will do everything I can to get the price down to $22, but that is absolutely the lowest I could get.

[Thutmose]

I've discovered that by using the 18X, I can eliminate the $20 keyboard interface. So, my new price estimate is as follows:

PICAXE 18X - $7.95
PS1 Controller - $~4
PS3/PC Adapter - $13.95 [optional, buy it if you want to use it on your PS3 or PC]
Misc. Parts (wire, solder, glue) - $~2
Shipping/Handing for above individual parts: $~5
Keyboard - Supply your own cheap PS\2 keyboard

Total: Around $18 without PC/PS3 adapter & $32 with the adapter

I think that price range is much more reasonable - and that's as low as it's gonna get.

[Draygone]

I wonder how capable RPGM1 is to keep up with not only the keystrokes, but moving the cursor between each keystroke.

[Thutmose]

Originally Posted by Draygone

I wonder how capable RPGM1 is to keep up with not only the keystrokes, but moving the cursor between each keystroke.

I'm wondering that, too.

It's been way too long since I last used RPG Maker, so I really don't remember how responsive it is. It's likely that there will be a bit of a delay - so you wouldn't be able to type 40 wpm, but it would be faster to use this rather than trying to just use the d-pad.

Once I get my copy of the maker, I'll see. But, entering text is pretty basic, so the program should be able to keep up.

As for the microcontroller, it will be running at 4MHz, and I don't think that the code required to translate keystrokes into button presses should be too complicated, so hopefully there won't be much of a delay there.

We're not really going to know until I build the prototype and do some testing.

[Valkysas]

Well, you can set the cursor move speed in RPGM1, so I guess you just set it to the fastest speed?

another thing to consider is that the RPGM1 will split words when it gets to the end of the line. There is no word wrap. so you have to plan and organize your dialog while you're typing it, while it's being put on-screen.

[Thutmose]

Originally Posted by Valkysas

Well, you can set the cursor move speed in RPGM1, so I guess you just set it to the fastest speed?

Thanks; I'll have to try that out.

For every keystroke, every letter typed in, the cursor has to move, potentially, several spaces up, down, left, or right. I can try to optimize the algorithm to take the shortest path possible, but it would still be a concern if the cursor moves to slow.

What happens if you hold down one of the d-pad buttons for a while? How fast does the cursor move if you don't let up on it? I'd imagine that however fast it goes in that circumstance, that's how fast it would move using this device.

Originally Posted by Valkysas

another thing to consider is that the RPGM1 will split words when it gets to the end of the line. There is no word wrap. so you have to plan and organize your dialog while you're typing it, while it's being put on-screen.

That shouldn't pose a problem for me as far as design consideration goes, but whoever uses this would need to keep that in mind as they're typing.

After I build the prototype, though, I could try to alter the algorithm to take into account the length of the text entry area and automatically word-wrap.

In theory - it would keep track of how many characters have been typed, and see if the word being typed currently will be cut-off. If it would be, then it could wait for the person to finish typing the word, then automatically delete the word, advance to the next line, and re-type the word for you. Presuming that it uses a mono-space font, otherwise it could get a bit tricky. Maybe I could implement a word-wrap switch so the person using it could turn the feature on/off.

But, I'm getting ahead of myself. I don't even now if this is going to work, yet.

[Valkysas]

What happens if you hold down one of the d-pad buttons for a while?

It's been a while, but I'm pretty sure the cursor just keeps moving.

How fast does the cursor move if you don't let up on it?

depends on the cursor speed set in the menu. it can go pretty damn fast.

[Thutmose]

Originally Posted by Valkysas

It's been a while, but I'm pretty sure the cursor just keeps moving.

depends on the cursor speed set in the menu. it can go pretty damn fast.

That's a good sign. If the cursor moves fast enough, then this device might be able to enter text almost instantaneously.

The MC's clock will be at 4MHz, like I said, so as long as the translation part of the program isn't too complex, then it would be able to press those buttons quite fast.

[Draygone]

I'd definately recommend trying out RPGM1's text entry before you get too far into this project.

If I had to guess, if you can't make it scroll through the choices faster than what it does normally, you'd be inputting letters at a rate of about 2 per second with that keyboard thing of yours.

[Thutmose]

Originally Posted by Draygone

I'd definately recommend trying out RPGM1's text entry before you get too far into this project.

If I had to guess, if you can't make it scroll through the choices faster than what it does normally, you'd be inputting letters at a rate of about 2 per second with that keyboard thing of yours.

At this point, I'm going to try making it, no matter what. So, whether it's 2 per second or 20, I'm going to build it.