Holy-Chaos

[Lausen]

I have started a new thread for this because the old one was very unorganized. I wanted to make a better one so people can understand the story easier. I'm going to start with the main story. I will add the character history and game play aspects some other time. Please tell me what you think of it now that you can see it all in one post.

Main story
Long ago there was a great war between nations. A war that would decide the out come of history. The war lasted for many years. The five great Kingdom’s caught in the middle of this war had suffered losses marked in the hundreds of thousands. The kingdoms were, the Baltherion Empire, the Valeria Empire, the kingdom of Tanik, the Haldero Empire, and the largest of them all the Sypherion Empire. The five leaders realized if they did not stop this war the losses would only get larger. They decided to split the land equally. They signed a treaty that made sure no one land could get to strong.

They appointed the Mirage Clan the task of maintaining balance between the five Kingdoms. They are a clan of high summoner’s that could use magnificent magic’s to crush anyone that dared to break the treaty. This clan was considered the keepers of peace.

Of course not all felt the land was divided evenly. The Sypherion Empire felt as though they were taking advantage of. They had the least to do with the war, but there land was cut nearly in half. They did not defy the realms of the treaty for fear of being wiped out. Over time there land began to decay and eventually turned to a wasteland. The people started riots and demanded change.

It has been hundreds of years since that war, but the Sypherion people still feel the effects. There land only got worse. The people of Sypheria slowly became envious of the other Kingdoms and over time that envy became hate. With the crowning of a new king comes a new hope for the people. This middle-aged man was a direct descendent of the leader that gave up so much land. He felt obliged to get what is rightfully there’s back. This leader named Gia lived through the hard ships that the Sypherion people had to endure. He has come up with a plan to take the land back. His people believe in his cause and support him with the utmost respect. The Sypherion Empire has been secretly massing its army for a full-scale attack. The last few years have been dedicated to preparations.

What people don’t know is that during these years of preparation Gia had a child for the sol purpose of protecting his own legacy. Only a few people knew of the existence of this child named Zeroth. Zeroth was trained to be the ultimate warrior. He knows nothing other then kill or be killed. Gia calls him the knight of chaos, whose purpose for living is freeing the land in witch they live.

Their first target is the small kingdom of Tanik. Tanik has adapted to the times of peace. Their army is rather primitive. The Sypherion Empire ran through like if it was nothing. Killing all in sight, but one managed to escape. The heir to the throne in Tanik named Isaiah escaped from the clutches of Gia because his father king Jonathon sacrificed his live in order to distract the Sypherion Empire. Before his death King Jonathon told Isaiah to “find the town of Preton and seek out a man named Drogen. He said he will know what to do. Go may son cut your own path.” Sypheria told the people that Isaiah died, so they would not doubt them, but they secretly searched for him.



Isaiah found Preton and ended up living there for eight years with Drogen and his son Lausen. Lausen and Isaiah grew to be great friends and rivals. For eight years they trained together and became strong warriors. One morning Isaiah left Preton to join the Knights of the Brotherhood. A group of knights that formed under the wing of Marcus the great. There purpose is to stop the Sypherion Empires campaign. Shortly after Isaiah left Lausen decided to leave as well, but for a different reason. Isaiah left to get revenge on the Sypherion Empire for destroying Tanik. Lausen on the other hand left to find himself and to become as strong as he can.

At this point there is a three-year gap in the game. The game has a lot to do with stopping the Sypherion Empire and learning what happened during this gap. At the end of the gap there is a scene where the Sypherion Empire attacks the Mirage clan and kills all but one. The youngest of the main family an eighteen-year-old girl named Azulia. This battle lasted a long time. The Sypherion Empire did not escape without casualties. As one of the Black Bergaid (Sypherion soldiers) tried killing Azulia her older brother Nero jumped in the way of his attack. He told her to run, you must live. You are the only one that can carry on the Mirage name. Nero used the most forbidden magic of the Mirage clan. He used Holy Flare. This attack bought Azulia enough time to escape, but at a cost. The cost of Nero’s live and many of the Black Bergaid men. The main story happens months after this horrible event.

Please tell me what you think and be honest.

[DYRE]

Re: Holy-Chaos

Seems pretty good. Only if a person was trying to gain freedom for their country, I wouldn't call them a "Knight of Chaos." Maybe a "Knight of Order."

[Ωbright]

Re: Holy-Chaos

Sounds pretty good! Definitely epic...

How did you deal with the different lands? Did you make a seperate world map for each? Also, what map settings did you use, so I can picture the lands?

Actually...if you want me to take some screen caps for you, let me know.

So how far would you say you were in making the game?

[Lausen]

Re: Holy-Chaos

I'm glad you liked it.

Well I don't exactly know what you mean by map settings, but I did make each a different map. Then conected them in a veriety of different ways. For a couple I used doungeons built into mountians so it looks like the land is conected. Others I used warp point on a sign that ask's if you want to go to a different land. On each one where I have it conected I have part's of the other map's by the warp point so you can teel it leads to a different land. For example I have a desert land. In the one it is conected to I have part of the desert on it by the warp point so it seem's like one land. I also have a river that flows on two field's that way it looks more realilistic.

As far as how much of the game that is already done you could say almost halfway. I have all the lands made and most towns done. I'm working on putting the story into the game right now, but that shouldn't take too long because I have a pretty good Idea of what I'm doing at each part.

I would love some screen caps. It might help me make some of the land better.

[Ωbright]

Re: Holy-Chaos

I was talking about things like what kind of terrains, weather, climate, etc. Knowing that helps to picture each land, but if you send me a demo I can look for myself.

All of the things you stated were GREAT ways of connecting maps together! Things like that make the gameplay more seamless, and help keep players in the game.

You work on your maps a bit more, and when you're done you can send me the file. I actually quite enjoy going on photo assignments in worlds that other people designed.

[hitogoroshi]

Re: Holy-Chaos

Really?
When school lets up, I'm gonna work on the world map first. After all, Torayu only needs one map, as it's going to be short, so why skimp? I've spent three hours on one map, and I plan on exceeding that.

[Lausen]

Re: Holy-Chaos

My first town is basicaly normal. It is summer with sunny sky's most of the time. At the first point in the game it is dark and rainy. Same with the first major town so it matches. Shortly after it turns nice. That map is called the Garon plain. It is made up of mostly plains with a small part of it forest because it is conected to the Bandits Forest. The forest seperates some mountains on both maps.

The lawlessLand has a large mountain valley that surrounds the town of Preton. The ruins of Tanik are located in a forest there. I made a small graveyard that you have to pass if you want to get to the ruins. It has a light thing that comes from the sky onto the ruins. Nothing too special.

One question Obright,
Ravina is a land that has mostly mistical creatures such as dwarfs and elfs. The Mirage clan was located here. It is full of trees. It is spring so the trees look nice. There are a few lakes and rivers. Some hills so you can see the area. That is where the desert is conected to so there is a small desert area. There is also a mountain range that runs into another map.

The land of Chaos. The home of the Sypherion Empire. It has been given this name because how bad the land has become. It is constintly night and raining. There are multipal puttles of water from the constint rain fall. There is some mountains in witch the Sypherion castle is located. It blends in with the mountains very well. It is basicly all dirt and a couple dead trees to show that the land is ruined. There are other parts with small humps of dirt and rock.

The last main map is Centeria. It is a mix of all other maps because it is the "center" of the lands.

I also have a cool map I'm working on. It is just an experiment, but I think I will keep it because it is cool. I have it all rock. Then raised it to the max hight. Then dug into it to make it look like valleys. It is a big maze it has many slops and such to conect each path so it is not just flat.

I was looking at the screne shoots from your game and they are amazing. I can tell you spent alot of time on them. It has made me want to go through and do some tweeking. I'm interested to see if you have anymore screne shots you would be willing to share.

One question Obright, I read some info on your game Ursus Quest and was wondering how much space did 14 maps take up. I stoped at 8 because I was scared I woundn't have enough room for all the events and side quests. I also was thinking about making it in two parts so I could have more options with characters and such. What do you think, would that make the game less apealing if it was in parts.

[Ωbright]

Re: Holy-Chaos

Really?
When school lets up, I'm gonna work on the world map first. After all, Torayu only needs one map, as it's going to be short, so why skimp? I've spent three hours on one map, and I plan on exceeding that.

Wait...are you sending me on another photo assignment? Well ok...if it will make you work on your map!

My first town is basicaly normal. It is summer with sunny sky's most of the time. At the first point in the game it is dark and rainy. Same with the first major town so it matches. Shortly after it turns nice. That map is called the Garon plain. It is made up of mostly plains with a small part of it forest because it is conected to the Bandits Forest. The forest seperates some mountains on both maps.

The lawlessLand has a large mountain valley that surrounds the town of Preton. The ruins of Tanik are located in a forest there. I made a small graveyard that you have to pass if you want to get to the ruins. It has a light thing that comes from the sky onto the ruins. Nothing too special.

One question Obright,
Ravina is a land that has mostly mistical creatures such as dwarfs and elfs. The Mirage clan was located here. It is full of trees. It is spring so the trees look nice. There are a few lakes and rivers. Some hills so you can see the area. That is where the desert is conected to so there is a small desert area. There is also a mountain range that runs into another map.

The land of Chaos. The home of the Sypherion Empire. It has been given this name because how bad the land has become. It is constintly night and raining. There are multipal puttles of water from the constint rain fall. There is some mountains in witch the Sypherion castle is located. It blends in with the mountains very well. It is basicly all dirt and a couple dead trees to show that the land is ruined. There are other parts with small humps of dirt and rock.

The last main map is Centeria. It is a mix of all other maps because it is the "center" of the lands.

I also have a cool map I'm working on. It is just an experiment, but I think I will keep it because it is cool. I have it all rock. Then raised it to the max hight. Then dug into it to make it look like valleys. It is a big maze it has many slops and such to conect each path so it is not just flat.

I was looking at the screne shoots from your game and they are amazing. I can tell you spent alot of time on them. It has made me want to go through and do some tweeking. I'm interested to see if you have anymore screne shots you would be willing to share.

One question Obright, I read some info on your game Ursus Quest and was wondering how much space did 14 maps take up. I stoped at 8 because I was scared I woundn't have enough room for all the events and side quests. I also was thinking about making it in two parts so I could have more options with characters and such. What do you think, would that make the game less apealing if it was in parts.

Sounds like your maps have a variety of terrains and elevations which is good. I'd like to check them out!

I do have more screen caps, but I was trying to take it easy on Valk's bandwidth...for a change. Seriously though...I didn't want to go overboard.

About your question, I eventually had enough room to finish the game completely (with 14 maps)...but didn't have enough room for any NPC's except 1. If I had made the boss encounters happen within the top floor of the towers instead of using several maps as 'tower tops' then I would have had room for plenty of NPC's. However, this would have lessened the impact of getting to the top of the tall towers, and dulled down the boss battles considerably. Also, considering what happens AFTER the battles, having them indoors would be a big let-down for players......so I decided to keep those maps....at the cost of NPC's.

Splitting data onto two or more chunks is easily doable, but if you have 8 maps you might not even need to unless you have tons of densely populated towns or something. The only reason why I would hesitate breaking up the file is for the sake of open-endedness. It annoys me in games where I'm herded along too much, and unable to backtrack. Therefore I think it's best to have all maps represented in each part (or build up the number of areas as you go, not lose them as you go). Events can take up a HUGE amount of space, so if you delete the events that have already passed you can free up space for more events, characters, etc. without losing any people (unless they die in the story), maps, items, etc.

Just so you know, though...continuing the story into another whole memory slot could mean making a 60-80 hour game, potentially. Shadow of the Towers is about 30-40 hours on one slot (20 if you race through the game). I am making a bonus game though, but it's not really a continuation of the story. I basically just set it up so that if you fulfill a certain requirement in the game, you can open up the bonus game. This game data is just a copy of the original data (with all of the old events deleted) where players can load the characters from their original game and replay the game at a higher level. While there are some new story events, it's not really a continuation of the story. I'm just saying that you might very well have enough room on one data slot.

[Karr Lord of Chaos]

Re: Holy-Chaos

as promised ill cretique.

Main story
Long ago there was a great war between nations. A war that would decide the out come of history. The war lasted for many years. The five great Kingdom’s caught in the middle of this war had suffered losses marked in the hundreds of thousands. The kingdoms were, the Baltherion Empire, the Valeria Empire, the kingdom of Tanik, the Haldero Empire, and the largest of them all the Sypherion Empire. The five leaders realized if they did not stop this war the losses would only get larger. They decided to split the land equally. They signed a treaty that made sure no one land could get to strong.

one problem is is perspective, this is a problem i had with my first game which ended up getting scraped. people arnt going to belive your world has a population that can hold 100's of thousands of people (especialy if the soldiers are all male, which would mean you need twice the number you specified to make up for the unaccounted for woman). if you go by a town every so often over a huge continent and theirs only 20 people in each town it just doesnt seam plauable. if you want such numbers then your going to have to make up for it with your gaming, by creating an illusion that the place is larger then you can make it. so by making peices of the town go off the screen so it continues beyond it but you cant acualy go there would be one good method - make sure you would explain this in your game somehow.

you may wish to name your great war if you havent already.

They appointed the Mirage Clan the task of maintaining balance between the five Kingdoms. They are a clan of high summoner’s that could use magnificent magic’s to crush anyone that dared to break the treaty. This clan was considered the keepers of peace.

you maybe have givin them a bit too much power and too much responcibility. if you have such a large number of people in your game then surely a few powerful seers wouldnt be able to stop a civil war or be able to be in every place at once to cover the land needed to suport the number of people you wanted in your game. they need another charactoristic to give them the special edge, perhaps a fearful reputation, the ability to teleport and a strong sence of where trouble lies. something extra to make them seam a bit more then they realy are so the population is controled.

Of course not all felt the land was divided evenly. The Sypherion Empire felt as though they were taking advantage of. They had the least to do with the war, but there land was cut nearly in half. They did not defy the realms of the treaty for fear of being wiped out. Over time there land began to decay and eventually turned to a wasteland. The people started riots and demanded change.

this is fine.

It has been hundreds of years since that war, but the Sypherion people still feel the effects. There land only got worse. The people of Sypheria slowly became envious of the other Kingdoms and over time that envy became hate. With the crowning of a new king comes a new hope for the people. This middle-aged man was a direct descendent of the leader that gave up so much land. He felt obliged to get what is rightfully there’s back. This leader named Gia lived through the hard ships that the Sypherion people had to endure. He has come up with a plan to take the land back. His people believe in his cause and support him with the utmost respect. The Sypherion Empire has been secretly massing its army for a full-scale attack. The last few years have been dedicated to preparations.

make sure that his feelings a bit more covert. if you have a special body that keeps the peace and has done so for several hundered years, you have to make sure that you dont defeat your logic by having a bilatently obvous sceme hatching right within eyesite and earshot of this group. chances are very high that more then one ruler or persons have wanted to breech the peace, how was their plans different, why did they fail and this one suceed?

What people don’t know is that during these years of preparation Gia had a child for the sol purpose of protecting his own legacy. Only a few people knew of the existence of this child named Zeroth. Zeroth was trained to be the ultimate warrior. He knows nothing other then kill or be killed. Gia calls him the knight of chaos, whose purpose for living is freeing the land in witch they live.

make sure this child is clearly hidden. if this Gia ruler has a wife, then its not easy to hide a baby. have a rumor backstorey so the secret remains safe and explains why no one seamed to notice a rather very pregnant prodominate leaders wife.

i see a logic problem with the son. he knows only how to survive and kill, is called chaos, but his purpose is for the people and to free them? its a bit too far a stretch to take a person seamingly uncontroled and trained to protect his own personal life, and then give him the directive of saving others. maybe you need an event which twisted his thinking to point him in this direction?

Their first target is the small kingdom of Tanik. Tanik has adapted to the times of peace. Their army is rather primitive. The Sypherion Empire ran through like if it was nothing. Killing all in sight, but one managed to escape. The heir to the throne in Tanik named Isaiah escaped from the clutches of Gia because his father king Jonathon sacrificed his live in order to distract the Sypherion Empire. Before his death King Jonathon told Isaiah to “find the town of Preton and seek out a man named Drogen. He said he will know what to do. Go may son cut your own path.” Sypheria told the people that Isaiah died, so they would not doubt them, but they secretly searched for him.

you said this crazy army mowed down this Tanik empire? how would the king know of the town and that it still stood, why was it spared, is it even in the same countery as the one being conquested? if its not then you have to consider the political motivation of whichever place it is at, and their relation to the prince possibly hiding out on their land and their relationship with the Gia empire. if its still inside the same countery then you have to have a good strong story to tell why this place wasnt reduced to ash along with the rest of the world.

in general, you wont come accros an entire country that has been flattened with all life exspunged from it. the lowest pesents escape notice so you may want to have a refugee every now and then show up. if a single prince can escape, even with all his cards aligned, then a lowly pesent or so can also. also note that since you used large numbers for your story, that you have to consider this into your calculation. the higher the numbers in your world, the more people who are going to escape an all conquring army.

also note that the news of such a complete destructive army spreads very fast, giving farther towns a chance to vacate or hide. this would also increase your numbers of escapees.

Isaiah found Preton and ended up living there for eight years with Drogen and his son Lausen. Lausen and Isaiah grew to be great friends and rivals. For eight years they trained together and became strong warriors. One morning Isaiah left Preton to join the Knights of the Brotherhood. A group of knights that formed under the wing of Marcus the great. There purpose is to stop the Sypherion Empires campaign. Shortly after Isaiah left Lausen decided to leave as well, but for a different reason. Isaiah left to get revenge on the Sypherion Empire for destroying Tanik. Lausen on the other hand left to find himself and to become as strong as he can.

you need a good reason as to why this town wasnt rolled over by this huge army in 8 years. if its a small town then you need a reason as to why the towns people didnt notice the new person joining the town - as smaller towns notice citizen changes/additions. how was a prince able to live under the noses of everyone for such a long time? make a good story to cover this.

At this point there is a three-year gap in the game. The game has a lot to do with stopping the Sypherion Empire and learning what happened during this gap. At the end of the gap there is a scene where the Sypherion Empire attacks the Mirage clan and kills all but one. The youngest of the main family an eighteen-year-old girl named Azulia. This battle lasted a long time. The Sypherion Empire did not escape without casualties. As one of the Black Bergaid (Sypherion soldiers) tried killing Azulia her older brother Nero jumped in the way of his attack. He told her to run, you must live. You are the only one that can carry on the Mirage name. Nero used the most forbidden magic of the Mirage clan. He used Holy Flare. This attack bought Azulia enough time to escape, but at a cost. The cost of Nero’s live and many of the Black Bergaid men. The main story happens months after this horrible event.

how on earth is a little girl able to outstrip a huge and very successful army? normal tactics of a large army would be to surround the ones their attacking, making a clear escape rute hard to get. plus thousands of strong fit men could easily track and catch up to a small girl. please avoid last of their line plot stratigies, they are overly done. if you simply must have it then keep it to one per game, or make it viable. your going to have to make this peice logicaly sound for it to be belivable.


over all the ideas can work. try not to make the plot too genericly stock ploted. theirs lots of twists you can add to give the story a fresh taste.

[Lausen]

Re: Holy-Chaos

Some of the problems you asked about are reveiled in the game, but the one I never really considered was about population. I will try to come up with something more realilistic. I will try to clear some things up.

The first is about the Mirage clan " keepers of balance." Like I said in the first post there was a treaty signed. The treaty made sure if one of the Kingdoms attacked the others would put a end to it. The Mirage clan made sure there is no unnecissary violence. The reason they are given this much responsability is because they can use summons in witch no one else can. It is a feared power.

This power is the reason Azulia was able to escape. Her brother Nero, the next successer used one of the forbiden magic's of the clan to buy her a small amount of time to escape. This attack is forbiden for a reason. It kills every one in a large area. It left many of the Sypherion men confused as to what was happening. She escaped during this confusion. The reason the others did not follow was because they launched there counter attack thinking they could win with them being confused. I have this as a storyteller.

As far as how Isaiah escaped In I worded it wrong in the first post. It was supposed to be, but one important person managed to escape. There were other people that lived, but none are important to the over all game. In fact I have Tanik a refugee town. And the reason they were the first to be attacked was because they were the ones that got the Sypherion empires good land. The other Kingdoms pushed them back to there own land, but didn't launch a counter attack. They underestimated the amount of men they had. Thinking there forces where basicly gone they chose not to attack in order to keep peace.

The reason Preton was not attacked was because it was the time after they were forced back by the other kingdoms. Not to mention Preton is located in a mountian vallely that no large army could fit through. They would have been forced to fight in rows of smaller amounts of the men. Not there stylle.

Isaiah stayed in Preton with Lausen and Drogen. Drogen made sure no one found out that he was a prince. He told the towns people he was his nephew. They didn't think much of it. Preton is very isolated so people never were coming in and out. Drogen wanted to keep it secret so Sypheria didn't find out and so he could live a normal live. He trained there knowing he would want to restore his kingdom some day. Drogen taught him what it would take to reserect Tanik.

Now for Zeroth. As he was still young he was tought to protect his people, but after they attacked Tanik Gia changed drastcly. He changed from just wanting to get there land back to wanting it all. He then gave Zeroth the nick name The Knight of Chaos. His believes were changed so fast that is why he acts the way he does. I will have more on this when I talk about character descriptions.

Thanks for the cretique.

[Karr Lord of Chaos]

Re: Holy-Chaos

Some of the problems you asked about are reveiled in the game, but the one I never really considered was about population. I will try to come up with something more realilistic. I will try to clear some things up.

The first is about the Mirage clan " keepers of balance." Like I said in the first post there was a treaty signed. The treaty made sure if one of the Kingdoms attacked the others would put a end to it. The Mirage clan made sure there is no unnecissary violence. The reason they are given this much responsability is because they can use summons in witch no one else can. It is a feared power.

one thing about treaties is that if you compare to the real world you see them being broken or more commonly bent considerably. a treaty in good faith has little value and must be backed by consiquinces that the participants know would be dangerous for them to breech. make sure you arnt forgetting to compare your game with a possible semi rl situation and see if it stacks up.

This power is the reason Azulia was able to escape. Her brother Nero, the next successer used one of the forbiden magic's of the clan to buy her a small amount of time to escape. This attack is forbiden for a reason. It kills every one in a large area. It left many of the Sypherion men confused as to what was happening. She escaped during this confusion. The reason the others did not follow was because they launched there counter attack thinking they could win with them being confused. I have this as a storyteller.

i still think this is one of the largest flaws in your story. their isnt any possible way to ligitimize it as anything other then completely impossible. the only way you could would be through very dangerous magics with large effects like you mentioned, but then players would ask why didnt they use this magic to clobber the army in the first place or why not use it in other situations. you end up with more holes then story to fill it. please try to find something more plausable, maybe have this person hidden in a small camp outside of the main host to make it more likely she could escape. just like population big magic with wide scoped effects have the same problems.

As far as how Isaiah escaped In I worded it wrong in the first post. It was supposed to be, but one important person managed to escape. There were other people that lived, but none are important to the over all game. In fact I have Tanik a refugee town. And the reason they were the first to be attacked was because they were the ones that got the Sypherion empires good land. The other Kingdoms pushed them back to there own land, but didn't launch a counter attack. They underestimated the amount of men they had. Thinking there forces where basicly gone they chose not to attack in order to keep peace.

The reason Preton was not attacked was because it was the time after they were forced back by the other kingdoms. Not to mention Preton is located in a mountian vallely that no large army could fit through. They would have been forced to fight in rows of smaller amounts of the men. Not there stylle.

great as long as the player gets a clear indication of this.

Isaiah stayed in Preton with Lausen and Drogen. Drogen made sure no one found out that he was a prince. He told the towns people he was his nephew. They didn't think much of it. Preton is very isolated so people never were coming in and out. Drogen wanted to keep it secret so Sypheria didn't find out and so he could live a normal live. He trained there knowing he would want to restore his kingdom some day. Drogen taught him what it would take to reserect Tanik.

i basicly just mentioned this so youd be aware of that perpective, as long as you have it covered then its ok.

Now for Zeroth. As he was still young he was tought to protect his people, but after they attacked Tanik Gia changed drastcly. He changed from just wanting to get there land back to wanting it all. He then gave Zeroth the nick name The Knight of Chaos. His believes were changed so fast that is why he acts the way he does. I will have more on this when I talk about character descriptions.

id sujest having a confliction in the characters personaly due to the fast change of his beleifs. have him strong with his new convictions, but have him falter a bit as he struggles to come to tearms with such a fast chance of prime directive.

[Lausen]

Re: Holy-Chaos

You are right that is the most unrealalistic part in my game. I do have some reasons as to way it might work still. This magic like I said kills everyone in a large area including the user. That is the reason they don't use it at all. It is part of the clans believe that if you can't live through your own attack there is no sense in using it at all. They think killing themselfs is a cowards way to die. Thus the reason it is forbiden. In the storeyteller I have Nero say right before he dies " I will gladly go to the after live with the shame if it means the survival of my clan." That is why he is the only one to use it.

It clears some of it up, but I still see your point. I will think of a way to fix it for tomarrow.

[Karr Lord of Chaos]

Re: Holy-Chaos

my words are only a consideration, its up to you to decide how your game will go and what is acceptable or not. have fun with the game, thats probaly the most important part.