Let's see how fast this thread is abandoned!

[Perversion]

So I did pick up IG Maker earlier this month, and have made an unofficial New Year's resolution to learn the ins and outs of the software to the point that I have at least a basic framework for a game. Began sketching some ideas out last night on paper (sketching, as in, putting some ideas down on paper, not sketching as in drawing), but I'm not going to even begin to ramble them out here until I have something more concrete.

I was really, really hoping to take the software in a different (graphically non-intensive, to the point of minimalism) direction, and I still might try to build something around this other idea, but for the time being, I'm thinking of starting with something that the software was intended to be used for to ease the learning curve a bit. I can maybe try to make a game type outside of the intended scope of the software later. But in order to break the rules, I need to learn the rules first, as they say.

[Wavelength]

Re: Let's see how fast this thread is abandoned!

I'm normally in the "wait til you have something to say something" school, but you my friend take it to an extreme!

Please please please stick with it this time, because I've felt a couple times in the past like I wanted to see your idea so badly, and then it never materialized. And I promise that if I can play it, then I will play it.

Best of luck, man!

[Perversion]

Re: Let's see how fast this thread is abandoned!

Well, I've been stumbling about a bit with this today, but I just found this.

You'd be surprised how unintuitive it is just to do something as simple as place the player's graphic on the screen. Or maybe you wouldn't be surprised. In any case, I'm gonna use placeholder graphics anyway while I learn what the software is capable of, so this'll work just as well as anything else.

EDIT: Went through the tutorial, and now I have a ghost walking through a flower-filled field. Bad as this is to say, as simple as that really was (once I understood what I was supposed to be doing), I'm gonna set this down for a bit. I have a notebook that I'm sketching out some ideas on, and I might pick that up and work out a few things. If I do not come back to this tonight, I have all day tomorrow off, so I plan on going through the last tutorial posted on the site linked to above, and then incorporating (or trying to, anyway) some basic ideas of my own.

[Wavelength]

Re: Let's see how fast this thread is abandoned!

It looks complicated! But not so complicated that someone like you couldn't get their head around it. I just hope that not everything requires so much leg work.

Let us know when you make some more progress!

[Perversion]

Re: Let's see how fast this thread is abandoned!

Actually, the "minimalist" idea I referenced above may end up being the easier of the two ideas. I might even put a "demo" version of the other idea within it (the framework and concept of the minimalist idea would accomodate that very nicely), and flesh it out into a full game later.

This text-heavy minimalist idea might make for a better "learning project," as I would not need to worry about massive amounts of conditions, tracking stats, etc. It would be more linear and actually fairly non-linear at the same time, as odd as that sounds. I just need to find text (fonts) that will be large enough to view at 720p resolution. Or maybe I'll work on the "engine" and idea first at 480p, and then sub in the larger graphics when I'm further along.

[Perversion]

Re: Let's see how fast this thread is abandoned!

Okay, I really should be focusing on a working engine for this idea before working on a "story" idea, but if I can't get something suitable for this part, the idea is almost not worth doing. I don't want it to seem "forced."


So, I'll try to ask this without giving too much away, and hope for some suggestions or advice...


So, you as the player will constantly be confronted with text that you already "wrote," but do not remember writing. As the game is to be heavily text-based, it would be MUCH more difficult to incorporate decision or choice branches for massive pieces of text. Yes, I could go the Mass Effect or Dragon Age route, and give a very general feeling, and then have the text go into more detail, but a lot of this needs to be fairly linear in order to convey what I'm thinking of conveying.

That being said, the game will be fairly non-linear at the same time...in terms of something that might be more conventionally referred to as "side quests."

THAT being said, there will really not be any "quests" to speak of in this game idea. The "side quests" are really more of sideline things the player can do if he or she so chooses, and most likely will have no bearing on the actual "plot" of the game.


Okay...after that ramble, back to the question at hand. I need a way to incorporate a huge amount of dialogue exchanges that the main character (essentially you, the player) does not remember making. Now, this actually will fit in very nicely with the vibe I'm going for, which is one of fear, distrust, and paranoia. And the "gameworld" will be set in an alternate reality from ours, but one that is essentially the same as ours, but with slightly more sinister Brave New World/Anthem/1984 vibes to it (as if that's even possible in this day and age).


So the reasoning behind him (or her) not remembering CAN be slightly sci-fi-ish, but no more so than something like A Scanner Darkly, another good reference point.


I love the idea of an unreliable narrator, but have zero desire to incorporate some stupid cliche like amnesia or some "the government wiped my memory" thing unless I can incorporate it in a convincing fashion.

Because here's the other thing...it's almost like blackouts, where the character/player discovers things on a daily (in game time) basis that he (or she) did the day before (or even earlier the same day) throughout the course of the game.

And here, I could go the Tyler Durden route, and have that be the big "reveal" late in the game, but I'd much rather not do this if I can help it. But as of now, these are really the only three plot devices I can see using to incorporate something like what I'm attempting...the amnesia one, which I've pretty much dismissed out of hand (unless it's something akin to Memento), the "the government did something to me without my knowledge" scenario, which I'm not too keen on, or the split personality (hence, the "blackouts") route, which, due to being the hinging plot device in Fight Club, I'm not too keen on, either.


Any help on this would be appreciated. If you need more details with what I'm trying to accomplish, or the medium (outside of the obvious "it's a game") in which I'd like to do so, please ask, and I'll try to answer.

[Wavelength]

Re: Let's see how fast this thread is abandoned!

Ah, I missed this in the shuffle of Redeye's game forum, since only one topic shows on the front page at a time. Glad to see you update, Perversion.

I'm a little confused but it sounds like the narrator is distinct from the player character, who also happens to have memory problems? Or are they the same person?

Other possible routes you could go down might be a memory-altering/destroying virus or creature if that fits in the gameworld, or possibly a character that is just certifiably insane (where they haven't lost their memory per se but it is decidedly unreliable)? The latter gives you a lot of backstory to explore if there's a reason they've gone insane, and both present ways to credibly allow the player to learn new things by regaining memory or sanity.

Just spitballing here, because I think the ideas you mentioned all sound good too. Even if it's been done before lots of times in fiction, it's unlikely it was done well in a video game more than once or twice before (except for the simple bumped-your-head Amnesia).

If you do decide to go for a sci-fi/Big Brother type of atmosphere, maybe there could be little robots (either benevolent personal tools or malicious Big Brother cameras) that follow you around and record things you've done and said? You could somehow gain access to these and hear conversations you've had in the past - if you're willing to eventually go full-production-values and add voice acting to these, that could be awesome. It would be very atmospheric.

Have you played Katherine? I haven't, but it almost looks like a similar "how did I get here and what have I done?" vibe as you're describing. Maybe that would be a good source of inspiration?

[Perversion]

Re: Let's see how fast this thread is abandoned!

When I refer to an "unreliable narrator," I mean this in the same sense as a book written in the first person, or in a film like Memento, where the viewer (or in this case, the player) can only go on what has been presented. And if that information is faulty, although the "main character" believes it to be true, this is more akin to what I'm getting at.

And how I have this envisioned, there really is no "player character" per se. There will not be a physical model of a character that the player controls (except perhaps in one of the "side quests," which are really not even side quests at all, but similar to minigames, but really have no bearing whatsoever on the main game at all (at least at this point)).

It's hard to describe all of this without either using quotation marks constantly or just giving away the entire idea/scenario, which I'm choosing not to do either, if I can help it.


Basically, this is not intended to be a shooting game, a platformer, or an adventure game (the genres that IG Maker was intended to support). There might be some of those genres within "minigames," but the crux of the main idea contains none of those elements whatsoever. In essence, the game will be played in the "first person," but not the way one usually envisions first person. Again, essentially, the player IS the main character, without a physical representaion.


And after having pondered this for a few days, I may have come up with a solution that involves none of those plot devices I described above that were troubling me. Might post something related to that later once I ponder it a bit more.

[Perversion]

Re: Let's see how fast this thread is abandoned!

I think I figured out what to do about the plot device (actually, it was more of a "mechanics" problem, in terms of how to convincingly fit what I wanted to accomplish into the gameplay mechanics) that was troubling me above.

I had previously had an idea in the back of my mind (I was not sure how to incorporate the idea, be it through writing, a video production, a game, or some sort of web-based thing) about identity theft, and its repercussions. It was going to involve not someone necessarily stealing someone's banking information and Social Security number, etc, but instead was to be a portrayal of someone who was so unhappy with their own life that they stole someone else's identity in order to "pretend" they were that person to make himself feel better, as if he was living out an alternate life.


I really did not know what to do with the idea, or into which media to incorporate it, but it would seemingly work extremely well for this one. As I have this project envisioned, this may not be much of a spoiler, as the main character (essentially, the player) will realize this information fairly quickly.


Okay, as for the game's layout and mechanics...I'm going to spill a bit here. I intend this, as mentioned previously, to be heavily text-based, without any character graphics, NPCs, etc, to speak of. In a sense, I guess you might call it a text adventure, but that's not wholly accurate, as it will most definitely have graphic elements. I'm trying my hardest to minimize these inasmuch as I can, as graphic design is nowhere near my strong suit.


If anyone has seen the film Thomas in Love, in which the entire film is a POV of the main character looking at his computer screen, this is really the main thrust of how I want this to work. Without the constant video chat and streaming adverts found in that film, of course, due to IG Maker being unable to incorporate video.

So, as I have this envisioned, a "cutscene" might consist of an IM occuring in "real time" between the main character (the player) and one of his online friends. Basically, as I intend this to be as open-ended as it would be for a real person browsing the internet and opening programs on his PC, I know that if there's going to be an underlying story (right now, one of conspiracy, fear, and paranoia), there will be times when I will need to prod the player to take certain actions to progress the storyline, but will try my hardest never to force the player to do these things.


But this might be the most difficult part of game balance (as it were)...leaving it open-ended and non-linear enough where the player can realistically do almost anything he or she wants at any given time, given the actions and capabilities I will put into the game (meaning, not holding the player's hand, and letting him or her figure out the path they need to take on their own), but have the game guided enough that the player never has to struggle with what they are supposed to do next.


And unless someone is willing to help me out with "web design" (obviously not HTML coding, but in terms of look, layout, and polish) and graphic design (meaning, "desktop icons"), I've been thinking about using some really "dated" looking graphics. This is mainly due to my finding a few websites that contain a wealth of public domain images that I can twist to my own needs without worrying about infringing on a copyright. So, graphically, this might come to resemble sort of a "steampunk" aesthetic, out of necessity, although "steampunk" is not quite the right word. I like the Victorian era for this, but that might not be quite the right vibe. Most likely, I'm going to need to peruse a bunch of public domain image sites that have a large amount of images from the same era that will work with this idea, and base my graphic aesthetic based on that (of course, finding one that I like, not just settling for one due to there being a lot of images to use).


This will accomplish a few things, in my estimation. It will give the game its own unique look inside of what is going to (wordlessly) be positioned to be a similar-but-alternate reality from our own. Therefore, I will not need to make everything look modern or futuristic, in terms of computer or web graphics. If I set up immediately that this is not in our reality, I think I can get away with almost anything, graphic-wise. So, a unique look and sensibility, without slaving over how to make the graphical elements look "real," as in, real in our world. A plus-plus. And that way, I can free up some time from graphic design (my weak point) to be used for the other places in the game that require more of my attention. And finally, the last benefit would be not having to worry about violating a copyright.



So without getting into exact specifics of the "gameplay" and story elements, this is how I'd ideally like to see this project unfold, as a sort of text adventure using familiar PC and internet concepts, but using a completely alien (meaning, completely different from how we are used to interacting with a PC and the internet) interface and graphic style to convey the "gameplay" and "storyline."


Any comments or questions are encouraged.

[hiolf]

Re: Let's see how fast this thread is abandoned!

Well, I've been stumbling about a bit with this today, but I just found this.

You'd be surprised how unintuitive it is just to do something as simple as place the player's graphic on the screen. Or maybe you wouldn't be surprised. In any case, I'm gonna use placeholder graphics anyway while I learn what the software is capable of, so this'll work just as well as anything else.

EDIT: Went through the tutorial, and now I have a ghost walking through a flower-filled field. Bad as this is to say, as simple as that really was (once I understood what I was supposed to be doing), I'm gonna set this down for a bit. I have a notebook that I'm sketching out some ideas on, and I might pick that up and work out a few things. If I do not come back to this tonight, I have all day tomorrow off, so I plan on going through the last tutorial posted on the site linked to above, and then incorporating (or trying to, anyway) some basic ideas of my own.

Thanks for the link to the Tutorial. I will check this out later today. Hopefully I will be able to create a simple map and besides this I want to create some flowers on my map. Maybe it is even possible to create a flower field. That would be fantastic because I love flowers. I sometimes check online flowers UK and it would be fantastic to rebuild them on my map.

[Wavelength]

Re: Let's see how fast this thread is abandoned!

Ah, so when you say heavily text-based, you mean the entire gameplay is largely based on text, not just that there's a lot of dialogue going on. Interesting.

I think the idea all sounds very cool, but tough to implement. Is IG Maker really the best way to go for it? It might be worth looking outside the RM suite for such a project.

I wish I had more to say besides that it sounds great and I'm looking forward to seeing more from you - but I think you know what you're doing, so any advice I'd have is just going to be telling you what you already know.