The one thing I really give Final Fantasy credit for.

[Echo Nomad]

Cloud

And what FF had the memory loss in it? 9? I dont remember FF7 having memory loss. Cloud had a full memory he just took on somone else's personality/memories.

From what I could drag out of the story, it wasn't amnesia but rather some sort of schizophrenia. That's one of the things I liked about FF7's story. What appeared as the overdone concept of a heroic super warrior, was in fact a run of the mill soldier considered a loser in his own community. Like Gobli's quest, here instead is the story of what is essentually RPG cannon fodder stepping up to save the world when the real super warrior failed.

[ErikaFuzzbottom]

Re: The one thing I really give Final Fantasy credit for.

And what FF had the memory loss in it?

FFs with memory loss (or some extent):

FF4: Not really so much memory loss as forgetful ness, Tellah (conveniently) forgot all his powerful spells until Cecil was transformed.
FF5: Can't remember his name (Galuf?), but it's another old guy, but he lost his memory because of a real good bonk on his head.
FF6: Terra couldn't remember her past for a while. Mostly because that Slave Crown she wore at the beginning.
FF8: Every party member except Rinoa and that cowboy-wannabe.
FF9: Zidane. Like the FF8 characters, he doesn't know he's suffered from memory loss, and he doesn't find out about his past until pretty late into the game.

[WilliamKirk]

Re: The one thing I really give Final Fantasy credit for.

It doesn't matter what plot devices they use, as long as they do a good job with them. Compare FF5 to FF6/7 to see what I mean. I'm sure you'll agree with me then. It wasn't unique to 6 either.

Secondly, the graphics of 7 were freakin' amazing. You guys have become spoiled by RPGs that came afterwards. FF7 came out when other rpgs were still using sprites in 3d worlds (BoF, AtL, etc.). And, others than AtL2 it was the first game to even have FMVs.

Also, I've analyzed the intro cutscene of FF7 pretty thoroughly, and it's the best of them all. The camera looks at the stars for a bit to get the player's attention and draw them into wondering what will ensue. Basically, the star viewing is there to do the initial bringing the player into the game and out of the real world that you see in all the best opening cutscenes. If you don't believe me re-watch FF6/8/Tactics's opening cutscenes. I've put a lot of thought into this when making my intro cutscene.

FFX was too easy, at least for experienced RPG players. I think, after 9's difficulty and slowness everywhere, they aimed at making a game that could be enjoyed by the masses. The numbers show that they did a good job at what they'd set out to do too. I think they had trouble making it hard after they made the switching members in/out and calling summons in the party's place. Basically, doing that took the place of random-battling, so I say kudos to them.

I think the topic creator's original comment stems from RPGM3's capabilities (for those of you who don't know), and that more and more games are doing that now-a-days. I blame the consumers who demand FFX-like graphics everywhere, or else say the graphics suck.

7's the only one that sets proper mood for every cutscene in it, had ALL deep characters with strong backgrounds and an understanding of why they were the way they were, a main character with an internal conflict, a well-developed antagonist, and strongly presented themes that raised serious issues. It's really the mood, theme, and characters where it dominates over the others (ff6/tactics did this well too). I don't expect everyone to know what I mean by theme and mood though.

8 and 9 had a lot of gameplay problems, basically, and X's the first one since 7/6/tactics that didn't. First, the junctioning system was only used as a crutch to let the player gain an advantage over enemies that leveled-up with them. The drawing was made to be as annoying as possible, and rendered its initial use (to get rid of mp, which can become an annoyance) unimportant. It did more harm than anything else. 9 was just way too God damn slow. Every battle took about 30 seconds to load, and the annoyance of this was compounded by the exact same music every time this happened. The dungeons were as long-drawn out as possible. And, the characters were HORRIBLY unbalanced. The learning abilities from equipment quickly became an annoyance when there were way more equipment than you could purchase, and some characters were forced in your party the whole game while others were as though they didn't even exist. ff9 returned all the old aspects of rpgs that turn people away from old rpgs like ff1/2/3/5 and early dw s. If you disagree with me, go back and play them again and you'll see EXACTLY what I mean. The collecting materials for ff8 was also a HUGE annoyance.

No, DBZ's story is terribly done, and DBZ only still exists because of blindly loyal followers. Comparing ff9 to DBZ is just wrong. Flat, out, wrong.

Sony translated ff7, not Square, and I think that's why sometimes the dialogue isn't perfect. I blame Sony though, since they did the translation and are thus responsible for any ackward dialogue.

I agree that 6/7/tactics were the high points of the series. They've just blown it with gameplay too many times since then (till X).

"What if the plot involves a memory loss but it's later found out that it's not memory loss at all but a different explanation for it?"
It depends how well it's presented. If you'd like to PM with more detailed information feel free to.

My brother and I have tried to analyze ff7 a ton, and what we've concluded was that Cloud lost his memory through being infused with Jenova cells, and that that's what Sephiroth uses to mess with his mind (perhaps it's Jenova messing with his mind even). Mostly, though, it's as Pandemonium hinted, Cloud unawaringly blocked the truth out of his memory because he wanted to believe he was in SOLDIER so much, in which case it's really a case of denial rather than amnesia. This is known to happen in real-life as well (I've known people who've done this even), so it's quite believable. This is also why some of that story he tells at the begining is true and some isn't: he himself doesn't know what happened any more.

[Shard]

Re: The one thing I really give Final Fantasy credit for.

I haven't played FF7 since it was first released, and for the time, I thought it was pretty decent, but I didn't go nuts over it. As for the story...it was very uneven. Not having played it in so long, I've found it very forgettable, what scenes I do remember are mostly because I've heard fans talk about them over and over, not because they were particularly poignant to me. As for characterizations, some might have been handled well, but the glaring examples of Yuffie and Vincent come to mind. Yuffie is just hanging out in some random forest, no reason given, you just stop by and pick her up...if there was more to her story after that I don't recall it...I just know, even at the time, I thought that was incredibly lame. And Vincent, while looking good, was treated as an after-thought, what backstory you get for him you really have to extrapolate from other events, or go out of your way to find...the waterfall cave comes to mind. I don't know if it's just me, but Aeris really grated on my nerves, I was only too happy to see her go.

FFX fits in a similar category for me...good, but not mindblowing. Mostly what irritated me was Tidus and the stereotype he represents getting so damn old by that point. I thought FFX2 did a better job of characterization and the gameplay was refreshing to me. It wasn't all stars and butterflies, but better than I would have guessed.

[Jamos' Old Account]

Re: The one thing I really give Final Fantasy credit for.

No, DBZ's story is terribly done, and DBZ only still exists because of blindly loyal followers. Comparing ff9 to DBZ is just wrong. Flat, out, wrong.

Whoa! Whoa! I wouldn't go as far as saying that it was being compared. That was just the one and only thing I found similar about it (which I personally thought was bad with or without being similar.) I am a DBZ fan, but I will be honest, DBZ's storyline is practically non-existent. The story is pretty much this: villian appears, everyone tries to hold him off until the hero arrives, the hero arrives and kicks villian's ass, villian tranforms and kicks his ass, villian does something drastic and dies anyway. The only reason why I like the show is because I like fast pasted fighting, other than that...
FF9's story is alot better than DBZ's and as you said, comparing them would be wrong. Flat out wrong.

PS: People really need to stop blindly following.

[WilliamKirk]

Re: The one thing I really give Final Fantasy credit for.

Ha ha, yeah, sorry if I was harsh. I once watched DBZ for a while too, but looking back on it now I should have stopped sooner.

[DarkwingChuck]

Re: The one thing I really give Final Fantasy credit for.

I will always love DBZ for the forbidden love between Piccolo and Gohan. At least that's what I got out of it.

[ErikaFuzzbottom]

Re: The one thing I really give Final Fantasy credit for.

I wish I had seen the entire series myself. I'm not some big fan of it, but I just don't like it when I miss too many episodes of a series. Glad that didn't happen with DragonBall.

Secondly, the graphics of 7 were freakin' amazing. You guys have become spoiled by RPGs that came afterwards. FF7 came out when other rpgs were still using sprites in 3d worlds (BoF, AtL, etc.).

Well yeah, I thought FF7 was pretty cool-looking when it came out as well. But even for a PS1 game, it looks like crap compared to some later PS1 games nowadays. Well, at least the field map characters. Really, everything else looks pretty nice. My only problem with the graphics are the field characters. I mean, look what happens when they lean on a table or something. They freaking split in half! They must've not got down polygon stretching when the game came out or something.

And, others than AtL2 it was the first game to even have FMVs.

And one of the firsts to have commercials that primarily consisted of said FMVs, if I've been listening around right.

Basically, the star viewing is there to do the initial bringing the player into the game and out of the real world that you see in all the best opening cutscenes. If you don't believe me re-watch FF6/8/Tactics's opening cutscenes.

FF6 had a thunderstorm over the town of Narshe, FF8 had a panning over a sea and field of flowers, and Tactics had a bunch of nifty-looking effects with weapons and some worded intro. By comparison, FF7's plain stars seems lacking to me. It isn't until we begin to pan out over Midgar that the opening becomes awesome.

9 was just way too God damn slow. Every battle took about 30 seconds to load, and the annoyance of this was compounded by the exact same music every time this happened. The dungeons were as long-drawn out as possible. And, the characters were HORRIBLY unbalanced. The learning abilities from equipment quickly became an annoyance when there were way more equipment than you could purchase, and some characters were forced in your party the whole game while others were as though they didn't even exist. ff9 returned all the old aspects of rpgs that turn people away from old rpgs like ff1/2/3/5 and early dw s. If you disagree with me, go back and play them again and you'll see EXACTLY what I mean.

Agreed, the battle load times were inexcusable, not to mention the pointless 5-10 second camera panning of the environment and enemies that followed. I have no idea why the ATB guage moved too slow. The Trance system was also the worst of the FF limit break systems IMO, since often I wind up in a Trance at the end of the battle, and lose the Trance before I even get to use it, not to mention that otherwise normal stuff (using items, defending) also reduced your in-Trance meter. I liked learning abilities with my equipment, but I agree that they did wind up giving you too much equipment to learn from at once, and this happens fairly early in the game too. Not sure what aspects you're talking about, but I for one enjoyed FF9's harkening (sp?) back to the old days.

Yuffie is just hanging out in some random forest, no reason given, you just stop by and pick her up...if there was more to her story after that I don't recall it...I just know, even at the time, I thought that was incredibly lame.

If I recall, she joined so that she could eventually steal the party's Materia and bring it back to her hometown of Wutai, where the war turned the town into a tourest attraction. Otherwise, yeah, her joining the party seemed to happen in the wrong way.

I don't know if it's just me, but Aeris really grated on my nerves

Not just you, but I'm not one of them. I don't know what problem people have with Aeris, unless it's her being the only main character without some super-troubled past/present (compared to the rest of the team at least).

[Jamos' Old Account]

Re: The one thing I really give Final Fantasy credit for.

I wish I had seen the entire series myself. I'm not some big fan of it, but I just don't like it when I miss too many episodes of a series. Glad that didn't happen with DragonBall.

Believe me you would be better off only seeing earlier sagas of DBZ. Hang on much later you will see the worst villian ever created... Majin Buu. He is a fat pink blob that acts like a baby and turns people into candy. If only I could take back the time I lost watching that. Super Buu was okay, but Majin Buu I hate the most. To the people that like him, I'm not trying to upset you, I just think that is a bit wierd.

I don't think FF7 was the first to use FMV's. The game Blood Omen, I believe, came out in 1996 and they didn't just have FMV, they had talking in them with fluid mouth movements. I found that very impressive. FF7 I believe was the first RPG to have FMV.

Personally, graphics aren't that big of a deal to me. You give me a good 2D game I would take that over a 3D game any day. I honestly was impressed with the graphics of FF7 knowing that it was released in 97. I find kind of funny that I started the series with FF9 and went backwards into the series.

[Riotsword]

Re: The one thing I really give Final Fantasy credit for.

Oh, and one thing about Final Fantasy X was the fact it was too.... easy. (I quit half-way through it because of this fact)

Well then, you quit too early. Wait until you fight the Spectral Keeper(you know guys, the one right before Yunalesca)... You basically either have to know what he does in advance, or fight him and be killed to even have a clue how to beat him. And he will kill you. Damn bastard, berserking me and stuff.

[Selphie's Fan Club]

Re: The one thing I really give Final Fantasy credit for.

The FF series was always great, but I loved FF7...In FF8 that took away the naming system, so you could only name Squall, Rinoa, and the dog. That ticked me off entirely. Luckily, they brought it back in FF9. Now, I happened to really like FF9...it felt like I was playing the old console version of the game. Such a relief from these "technologically advanced" FF games.

I did not really care too much for FFX or X-2. You can't skip the cutscenes, and the blitzball takes way too long to finish. Plus it's nearly impossible to get the legendary weapon for Tidus, which really ticked me off, because I usually do that for every FF game. Who the heck could win the chocobo race in 0.00 seconds?!?!? And I never bothered to by XI, because I couldn't afford the hard drive and network adaptor you needed to play the game.

All in all, I loved the series until FFX. Hope FFXII will redeem the name again.

Oh, and The Spirits Within was badass, but had nothing to do with any of the games.

[marcus]

Re: The one thing I really give Final Fantasy credit for.

FFIX and FFVI had the best characters to me. Each and every one of them (especially once you learned their backstories in the world of ruin from FFVI) had a rich characteristics, personalities, and evolved as the tale grew. The story with Cyan and what happened in the World of Ruin was simply the best and even Shadow (if you let him live) had a charming (yet silent) relationship with Realm. I really loved Freya from FFIX and Zidane is a throwback to Locke who's like... the only optimistic FF main character.

[Red Dragon]

Re: The one thing I really give Final Fantasy credit for.

Locke who's like... the only optimistic FF main character.

Except Tidus...

Anyways, it's a little off topic but anyone know when Advent Children is coming to the USA?

[ErikaFuzzbottom]

Re: The one thing I really give Final Fantasy credit for.

Believe me you would be better off only seeing earlier sagas of DBZ. Hang on much later you will see the worst villian ever created... Majin Buu.

Actually I saw all the episodes starting with Gohan going to high school, including the Majin Buu episodes. I was actually rooting for Hercule (or Mr. Satan, or whatever you want to call him) when he went to destroy Majin Buu. The episodes I've missed were half of the Android Saga and the majority of the Cell Saga. Haven't checked out the redubbing of DBZ. Probably won't ever.

Well then, you quit too early. Wait until you fight the Spectral Keeper(you know guys, the one right before Yunalesca)...

I remember Yunalesca more than the Spectral Keeper. If only because of Yunalesca's party-wide instant death.

FF8 that took away the naming system, so you could only name Squall, Rinoa, and the dog.

Also you could name the GFs and Squall's necklace.

FFIX and FFVI had the best characters to me. Each and every one of them (especially once you learned their backstories in the world of ruin from FFVI) had a rich characteristics, personalities, and evolved as the tale grew.

I agree that the World of Ruin was pretty good, but I didn't like how it lost almost all of its linearity. I'd wind up going to one place too early and being kicked around by its boss, or get lost on where to find the next party member (I found Locke by chance; figures he'd be at a place that I wanted to find treasure at). And while it did develop some of the characters awesomely well at that point (my favorite being Locke's reunion), others it seemed to not do much with, such as Relm and Strago. Maybe I just didn't come across them at the right time or the right way. When I brought Relm to Strago, they were all "I missed you so much" and that was that.

[Magus]

Re: The one thing I really give Final Fantasy credit for.

I was able to get Tidus' ultimate weapon. You need to enter a lonely Zen-like state to accomplish that. Lulu's ultimate weapon is the biggest ***** to get.

Locke was falsely optimistic - if I remember correctly he was sorta self-loathing because of..........................THINGS. Sorta like Vash the Stampede or Rurouni Kenshin I guess.