gay rights - U.S. vs. rest of the world

[Karim]

Re: gay rights - U.S. vs. rest of the world

I didn't mean you said it specifically, I meant the notion of it being banned simply for the reason some people are against it.

It doesn't really affect anyone but the two people actually getting married. It isn't about religion or ethics, its about people needing to keep their noses out of other peoples business. If it doesn't affect you, why should you have a say in it?

[Ωbright]

Re: gay rights - U.S. vs. rest of the world

The point of my original post was to get people to elaborate on why premise 2 is true (or false). So far thetruecoolness has done that, but that's about it. You can't just say "IT'S DELUSIONAL" and have that be the end of the argument, you need to argue why.

When you show me the consideration of providing me with evidence to back up your claims, I'll do the same for you.

ENOUGH with the damn references to the scientific method!!! That was just something you picked up and ran with.

And who are you...Geraldo Rivera? He gets paid to play devil's advocate...what's in it for you?

[Czechs Mex]

Re: gay rights - U.S. vs. rest of the world

ENOUGH with the damn references to the scientific method!!! That was just something you picked up and ran with.

I'm just trying to disprove the argument that a society free from X is necessary to show that X is detrimental to society. Can we agree on that?

Otherwise, it would be impossible to even show that premise (2) was true.

[Geno Blue]

Re: gay rights - U.S. vs. rest of the world

It isn't about religion or ethics, its about people needing to keep their noses out of other peoples business.

But that is still just your opinion that it has nothing to do with religion or ethics. I look at it this way though people want to do what they want to do because ultimately they make their own decisions and when you say someone is wrong they don't like it because it makes them uncomfortable and possibly angry. I don't see accepting people's problems as a form of solving the worlds problems. Our nation is getting to the point were it is so individualistic and detached that it will fall apart slowly but surely.

[Karim]

Re: gay rights - U.S. vs. rest of the world

And people shouldn't be allowed to make their own decisions? Even when it only affects them? You want be told how you can live, by people who don't even contribute to your life?

Also what "problem" does banning this solve? I don't understand your logic.

[Ωbright]

Re: gay rights - U.S. vs. rest of the world

I'm just trying to disprove the argument that a society free from X is necessary to show that X is detrimental to society. Can we agree on that?

WHY is any of this even relevant? It's all beside the point, and it's clouding the issue.

Otherwise, it would be impossible to even show that premise (2) was true.

WHY would I want to do that? I'm not out to prove anything, but if I were, it would go something like this:

- Gay people have been an integral part of every society since the dawn of man.

- Nobody fully understands the great machine that is humanity.

- That being the case, WHO in their right mind would start throwing monkey wrenches into the works, or removing parts that they don't even understand?

[Geno Blue]

Re: gay rights - U.S. vs. rest of the world

The problem is unrepented sin against God which seperates them from God, I am going purely off of the Bible. I'm not saying I have the right to tell people what to do, but God does.

[Valkysas]

Re: gay rights - U.S. vs. rest of the world

no he doesnt. he has the right to tell YOU what to do, because you believe he exists. but for example, he doesnt have the right to tell me anything, because I believe that he does not exist.

using religion as a basis for laws is idiotic, since there are so many religions out there, no matter what you do you end up forcing beliefs on people.

don't use religion to make judgements that will effect anyone outside of it, and don't use religion when refering to anyone outside of it.

not saying that you are, of course. I just get tired of seeing people asked why gay marriage is so wrong, and all they can come back with is various religious things.

[Chad]

Re: gay rights - U.S. vs. rest of the world

Then why can atheist's marry?

[Geno Blue]

Re: gay rights - U.S. vs. rest of the world

no matter what you do you end up forcing beliefs on people.

Just like everyone then.

[Valkysas]

Re: gay rights - U.S. vs. rest of the world

No. If you leave religion out of law-making, you get a neutral point of view that will effect everyone equally and oppress no one, as long as the law maker is respectful of other people's freedom.

I find it impossible to respect anything bible-related when it specifically says that atheists can do no good, and at least one translation instructs people to stone us on sight. So any law made because of something in that book is always going to anger me. and sometimes when discussing these things, that anger ends up being vented on people who really don't bother me at all, like you. I don't have a problem with you at all. I do have a problem with people that use the bible to justify discrimination of my friends.

[Geno Blue]

Re: gay rights - U.S. vs. rest of the world

Yeah but there is no clear line you can draw as what is respectful of people's freedom's. God has the right to judge but he has given man free will to listen to Him or not...he wants people who genuinely want to follow and love Him not people who are forced into it.

[Valkysas]

Re: gay rights - U.S. vs. rest of the world

and how does that relate to gay marriage at all? because it is forcing people to conform to biblical standards. if they want to be godless heathens, let em'.

[Geno Blue]

Re: gay rights - U.S. vs. rest of the world

I would like to see where it says to stone athiest on site and what context it is in...and it depends on if it is in the old testament or the new testament.

The bible doesn't say they have to change...it just says that homosexuality is wrong...it is their decision. Its not forcing them to do anything.

[irate giraffe]

Re: gay rights - U.S. vs. rest of the world

No. If you leave religion out of law-making, you get a neutral point of view that will effect everyone equally and oppress no one, as long as the law maker is respectful of other people's freedom.

Won't this oppress those who do not want religion left out of law-making (i.e. xians)?