Re: The non-sexuality bashing discussion of sexuality/gay marriage
For those who still think homosexuality is a choice, at what age did you choose NOT to be gay?
I have some past notes on biological and cognitive differences, the list of animal species that are gay, and how our mother's antibodies make us gay. Gay people even have different pheromones which thus then react differently with other's pheromones, which causes attraction. And even if it was a choice, it wouldn't make any difference. Although I probably wouldn't have put myself through this torture if it was.
~~~
(some of this is me, and some is borrowed)
First let's ask the question, why not have gay marriage?
1) We would be redefining what marriage is because marriage is traditionally a heterosexual institution.
2) The purpose of marriage is to procreate.
3) I believe homosexuality is a sin.
4) Same-sex marriage would start us down a "slippery slope" towards legalized incest, bestial marriage, polygamy and all kinds of other horrible consequences.
5)Gay marriage would mean forcing businesses to provide benefits to same-sex couples on the same basis as opposite-sex couples.
6)Gay marriage would force churches to marry gay couples when they have a moral objection to doing so.
~~~~~~~
Now let's take a look at how stupid these statements are :-)
1) We would be redefining what marriage is because marriage is traditionally a heterosexual institution.
And traditionally interracial marriages were illegal. And it depends on what you consider "traditional" because marriage has already been redefined countless times throughout history. It's gone from societal polygamy, to it being a property contract, to being racially divided, and now we just want to adapt it to modern rights and privileges for all people.
2) The purpose of marriage is to procreate.
This one is easy to handle. So why do we let people who can't procreate get married
3) I believe homosexuality is a sin.
The Bible strictly forbids eating shellfish, pork, rabbits, blood and certain birds of prey.
The Bible forbids wearing cloth made out of a mix of wool and linen, but other fiber combinations are fine. You can't come in contact with a women (even indirectly) who was had her period.
The bible says to cut of your wife's hands if she touches you in the ball sack.
Work on sunday? You're suppose to be stoned.
They'res rules made in a time and in an uneducated primitive society where no science existed and magical thinking was the common trait.
In fact the old and new testament seem to be talking about two different god's at times. Between a vengeful, intolerant, angry and punishing God to a God of love and forgiveness.
AND AT WHAT POINT DOES THE FACT SOMEONE THINK IT'S A SIN ALLOW THEM THE RIGHT TO DISENFRANCHISE OTHERS?
And why do christians think they have the copywrite on marriage? Should they ban all people who aren't christians from getting married?
4) Same-sex marriage would start us down a "slippery slope" towards legalized incest, bestial marriage, polygamy and all kinds of other horrible consequences.
This is an example of the reductio ad absurdum fallacy, it is calculated to create fear in the mind of anyone hearing the argument. It is, of course, absolutely without any merit (that's why it's called a fallacy).
5)Gay marriage would mean forcing businesses to provide benefits to same-sex couples on the same basis as opposite-sex couples.
"While this may or may not be true (based primarily on state labor laws), the reality is that many businesses already do offer these benefits to gay couples, and for sound business reasons. And experience has shown that when they do, the effect on their costs for offering these benefits is minimal - very rarely does the cost of benefits offered to gay couples cause the business' benefits costs to rise by more than 1.5%."
6)Gay marriage would force churches to marry gay couples when they have a moral objection to doing so.
"This argument, usually advanced by churches that oppose gay marriage, is simply not true. There is nothing in any marriage law, existing or proposed, anywhere in the United States, that does or would have the effect of requiring any church to marry any couple they do not wish to marry. Churches already can refuse any couple they wish, and for any reason that suits them, which many often do, and that would not change. Some churches continue to refuse to marry interracial couples, others interreligious couples, and a few refuse couples with large age disparities and for numerous other reasons."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Here's why some people oppose gay marriage, but normally don't talk about as much.
1) Just not comfortable with the idea.
2)Marriage is a sacred institution
So people shouldn't be able to divorce then either right? You're marriage can be your own sacred institution. But marriage is a legal partnership that provides important rights to loved ones and offspring. Something that shouldn't be denied regardless of sexual orientation.
3)Gay sex is unnatural.
WRONG. Homosexual behavior in animals has been described in at least 450 species of 1500 animal species whose behavior has been extensively studied.
4)The thought of gay sex is repulsive.
Well, it will come as some surprise to a lot of heterosexuals to find out that, to a lot of gays, the thought of heterosexual sex is repulsive!
5) They might recruit
The studies that have been done on attempts at "therapeutic" intervention have never been shown to have any statistically significant results in the manner intended, and most have been shown to have emotionally damaging consequences. So the notion that someone can be changed from straight to gay is just as unlikely. Yet there remains that deep, dark fear that somehow, someone might get "recruited." And that baseless fear is often used by bigots to scare people into opposing gay rights in general, as well as gay marriage.
~~~~~~
"The core cause of this fear is the result of the fact that many homophobes, including most virulent, violent homophobes are themselves repressed sexually, often with same sex attractions. One of the recent studies done at the University of Georgia among convicted killers of gay men has shown that the overwhelmingly large percentage of them (more than 70%) exhibit sexual arousal when shown scenes of gay sex. The core fear, then, for the homophobe is that he himself might be gay, and might be forced to face that fact. The homophobia can be as internalized as it is externalized - bash the queer and you don't have to worry about being aroused by him."
~~~~~~
LASTLY
Marriage is for commitment, rights, and raising a family.
Gay people can be as committed as straight people.
Gay people deserve the same rights through marriage as straight people.
Gay people are fully capable of being good parents, and in fact better ones than a good chunk of straight parents.
So why not?
Denying gays the right to marriage is in the same line as racism. People need to quit trying to disenfranchise gays the rights everyone else has the opportunity to get.
And one day those people will be seen as the racists of their era. I'm glad I'm not one of them.
For those who still think homosexuality is a choice, at what age did you choose NOT to be gay?
I have some past notes on biological and cognitive differences, the list of animal species that are gay, and how our mother's antibodies make us gay. Gay people even have different pheromones which thus then react differently with other's pheromones, which causes attraction. And even if it was a choice, it wouldn't make any difference. Although I probably wouldn't have put myself through this torture if it was.
~~~
(some of this is me, and some is borrowed)
First let's ask the question, why not have gay marriage?
1) We would be redefining what marriage is because marriage is traditionally a heterosexual institution.
2) The purpose of marriage is to procreate.
3) I believe homosexuality is a sin.
4) Same-sex marriage would start us down a "slippery slope" towards legalized incest, bestial marriage, polygamy and all kinds of other horrible consequences.
5)Gay marriage would mean forcing businesses to provide benefits to same-sex couples on the same basis as opposite-sex couples.
6)Gay marriage would force churches to marry gay couples when they have a moral objection to doing so.
~~~~~~~
Now let's take a look at how stupid these statements are :-)
1) We would be redefining what marriage is because marriage is traditionally a heterosexual institution.
And traditionally interracial marriages were illegal. And it depends on what you consider "traditional" because marriage has already been redefined countless times throughout history. It's gone from societal polygamy, to it being a property contract, to being racially divided, and now we just want to adapt it to modern rights and privileges for all people.
2) The purpose of marriage is to procreate.
This one is easy to handle. So why do we let people who can't procreate get married
3) I believe homosexuality is a sin.
The Bible strictly forbids eating shellfish, pork, rabbits, blood and certain birds of prey.
The Bible forbids wearing cloth made out of a mix of wool and linen, but other fiber combinations are fine. You can't come in contact with a women (even indirectly) who was had her period.
The bible says to cut of your wife's hands if she touches you in the ball sack.
Work on sunday? You're suppose to be stoned.
They'res rules made in a time and in an uneducated primitive society where no science existed and magical thinking was the common trait.
In fact the old and new testament seem to be talking about two different god's at times. Between a vengeful, intolerant, angry and punishing God to a God of love and forgiveness.
AND AT WHAT POINT DOES THE FACT SOMEONE THINK IT'S A SIN ALLOW THEM THE RIGHT TO DISENFRANCHISE OTHERS?
And why do christians think they have the copywrite on marriage? Should they ban all people who aren't christians from getting married?
4) Same-sex marriage would start us down a "slippery slope" towards legalized incest, bestial marriage, polygamy and all kinds of other horrible consequences.
This is an example of the reductio ad absurdum fallacy, it is calculated to create fear in the mind of anyone hearing the argument. It is, of course, absolutely without any merit (that's why it's called a fallacy).
5)Gay marriage would mean forcing businesses to provide benefits to same-sex couples on the same basis as opposite-sex couples.
"While this may or may not be true (based primarily on state labor laws), the reality is that many businesses already do offer these benefits to gay couples, and for sound business reasons. And experience has shown that when they do, the effect on their costs for offering these benefits is minimal - very rarely does the cost of benefits offered to gay couples cause the business' benefits costs to rise by more than 1.5%."
6)Gay marriage would force churches to marry gay couples when they have a moral objection to doing so.
"This argument, usually advanced by churches that oppose gay marriage, is simply not true. There is nothing in any marriage law, existing or proposed, anywhere in the United States, that does or would have the effect of requiring any church to marry any couple they do not wish to marry. Churches already can refuse any couple they wish, and for any reason that suits them, which many often do, and that would not change. Some churches continue to refuse to marry interracial couples, others interreligious couples, and a few refuse couples with large age disparities and for numerous other reasons."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Here's why some people oppose gay marriage, but normally don't talk about as much.
1) Just not comfortable with the idea.
2)Marriage is a sacred institution
So people shouldn't be able to divorce then either right? You're marriage can be your own sacred institution. But marriage is a legal partnership that provides important rights to loved ones and offspring. Something that shouldn't be denied regardless of sexual orientation.
3)Gay sex is unnatural.
WRONG. Homosexual behavior in animals has been described in at least 450 species of 1500 animal species whose behavior has been extensively studied.
4)The thought of gay sex is repulsive.
Well, it will come as some surprise to a lot of heterosexuals to find out that, to a lot of gays, the thought of heterosexual sex is repulsive!
5) They might recruit
The studies that have been done on attempts at "therapeutic" intervention have never been shown to have any statistically significant results in the manner intended, and most have been shown to have emotionally damaging consequences. So the notion that someone can be changed from straight to gay is just as unlikely. Yet there remains that deep, dark fear that somehow, someone might get "recruited." And that baseless fear is often used by bigots to scare people into opposing gay rights in general, as well as gay marriage.
~~~~~~
"The core cause of this fear is the result of the fact that many homophobes, including most virulent, violent homophobes are themselves repressed sexually, often with same sex attractions. One of the recent studies done at the University of Georgia among convicted killers of gay men has shown that the overwhelmingly large percentage of them (more than 70%) exhibit sexual arousal when shown scenes of gay sex. The core fear, then, for the homophobe is that he himself might be gay, and might be forced to face that fact. The homophobia can be as internalized as it is externalized - bash the queer and you don't have to worry about being aroused by him."
~~~~~~
LASTLY
Marriage is for commitment, rights, and raising a family.
Gay people can be as committed as straight people.
Gay people deserve the same rights through marriage as straight people.
Gay people are fully capable of being good parents, and in fact better ones than a good chunk of straight parents.
So why not?
Denying gays the right to marriage is in the same line as racism. People need to quit trying to disenfranchise gays the rights everyone else has the opportunity to get.
And one day those people will be seen as the racists of their era. I'm glad I'm not one of them.
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