Germany moves to ban Scientology

[Kire]

yessssssssssssss!

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe....ap/index.html

So...freedom of religion or dangerous cult? DISCUSS.

[H2SO4]

Re: Germany moves to ban Scientology

Although it is a stupid "religion", I don't think it's particularly dangerous, and I believe in Freedom of Religion.

[Smurf Taco]

Re: Germany moves to ban Scientology

I dunno, that "truth about Scientology" YTNMD made it seem pretty dangerous...

I don't know how I feel about banning it either, though. They have a lot of fanatics with a lot of money and power behind them, it's kind of a group of people I wouldn't want to upset.

[Bon]

Re: Germany moves to ban Scientology

Although it is a stupid "religion", I don't think it's particularly dangerous, and I believe in Freedom Religion.

I rest my case.

[Seraph]

Re: Germany moves to ban Scientology

Well, if these guys are allowed to practice their "religion", I don't see a problem with Scientology or any other pseudo religious cults. Freedom has it's price, but it's still a necessity...

[Chrono]

Re: Germany moves to ban Scientology

I wouldn't really call the KKK a cult, and they're hardly a religion. They believe themselves to be Christians.

[Seraph]

Re: Germany moves to ban Scientology

I wouldn't really call the KKK a cult, and they're hardly a religion. They believe themselves to be Christians.

Doesn't any cult believe themselves to be a religion of some kind. Regardless of them being morally wrong, they still have the right to be a group of followers and so does Scientology, and all other such groups/cults/religions.

[Karr Lord of Chaos]

Re: Germany moves to ban Scientology

I wouldn't really call the KKK a cult, and they're hardly a religion. They believe themselves to be Christians.

i hate to disagree with you but i have no choice here based on definitions. as awful as the kkk is and as destructive as its "doctrines" maybe, its still tolerated as a free form of expression. i dont agree with this at all and feel that all preachers of hate should be silenced, especially when its hate formed from racial discrimination.


"A religion is a set of common beliefs and practices generally held by a group of people, often codified as prayer, ritual, and religious law. Religion also encompasses ancestral or cultural traditions, writings, history, and mythology, as well as personal faith and mystic experience. The term "religion" refers to both the personal practices related to communal faith and to group rituals and communication stemming from shared conviction."

"Cult roughly refers to a cohesive social group devoted to beliefs or practices that the surrounding culture considers outside the mainstream, with a notably positive or negative popular perception. In common or populist usage, "cult" has a positive connotation for groups of art, music, writing, fiction, and fashion devotees,[1] but a negative connotation for new religious, extreme political, questionable therapeutic, and pyramidal business groups.[2] For this reason, most, if not all, non-fan groups that are called cults reject this label."


for some reason i havent fully been able to explain to myself i am against scientology. i dont like that it exists, i think its beyond the constrains of bogus, and i for sure dont classify it as a religion. it was made popular by idiot stars and its doctrines are directly against all possibilities of rationality and sanity.

however, i still think germany better carefully review itself to make sure that it isnt doing the very things its accusing scientology of doing - preventing freedom. i would very much like to see its footholds stamped out and it labeled as a dangerous cult.

[Seraph]

Re: Germany moves to ban Scientology

The KKK is not a God damn religion. There's a difference.

re·li·gion /rɪˈlɪdʒən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ri-lij-uhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4. the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5. the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
6. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.
7. religions, Archaic. religious rites.
8. Archaic. strict faithfulness; devotion: a religion to one's vow.
—Idiom
9. get religion, Informal.
a. to acquire a deep conviction of the validity of religious beliefs and practices.
b. to resolve to mend one's errant ways: The company got religion and stopped making dangerous products.




I don't see a difference at all, unfortunately. Don't get me wrong though, I do not support or promote the kkk in any way shape or form.

[Karr Lord of Chaos]

Re: Germany moves to ban Scientology

i think it more fits the cult description then the religion one.

[Seraph]

Re: Germany moves to ban Scientology

Maybe, but my point was that if they are tolerated and allowed to practice within the confines of the law, then any other religion or cult should be allowed the same freedom. I disagree with their practices, but they have the right as free people to hate as much as they want. Islam is a descriminatory religion, but I don't know many people who will say it's not a valid recognized one.

[Magus]

Re: Germany moves to ban Scientology

Kire, you will regret this.

[Karr Lord of Chaos]

Re: Germany moves to ban Scientology

Maybe, but my point was that if they are tolerated and allowed to practice within the confines of the law, then any other religion or cult should be allowed the same freedom. I disagree with their practices, but they have the right as free people to hate as much as they want. Islam is a descriminatory religion, but I don't know many people who will say it's not a valid recognized one.

you are correct in that regard. as hated as it maybe, the kkk has a right to exist under current definitions and by the same right so does scientology. perhaps germany has a different set of laws that clearly define what is accepted or perhaps they are ruling this by using other legislation. germany is not the usa after all.

[Hrafn]

Re: Germany moves to ban Scientology

re·li·gion /rɪˈlɪdʒən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ri-lij-uhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4. the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5. the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
6. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.
7. religions, Archaic. religious rites.
8. Archaic. strict faithfulness; devotion: a religion to one's vow.
—Idiom
9. get religion, Informal.
a. to acquire a deep conviction of the validity of religious beliefs and practices.
b. to resolve to mend one's errant ways: The company got religion and stopped making dangerous products.




I don't see a difference at all, unfortunately. Don't get me wrong though, I do not support or promote the kkk in any way shape or form.

KKK isn't a religion; they don't hate gays and blacks to appease God or anything (well, some might, but that's their own private insanity). They're more comparable to a gang. In fact, that's basically all they are. Every bit as full of misdirected anger as the Crips or Bloods, just more organized and focused on ceremony and politics instead of drive-by shootings.

Oh, and while the freedom of religion vs. protection from cults argument can be an interesting one, I don't see any point in worrying about it. It's Germany, and if they want to ban those nutjobs, fine by me. Them curtailing freedom has no impact on Americans. However, them limiting the number of Scientologists, and as such affecting the overall group's finances a bit, that's certainly good news.

[Seraph]

Re: Germany moves to ban Scientology

I apologize to anyone I may have offended in this thread. This was not my intention. Please understand the point I am trying to make.


The kkk is BAD.