Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

John Dies At The End: Twists and Pitching your Game.

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    John Dies At The End: Twists and Pitching your Game.

    (This article covers ground similar to Ryner's selling your game topic, which I highly recommend reading as well.)

    Originally posted by Mitch Hedberg
    As a comedian, you have to start the show strong and you have to end the show strong. Those are the two key elements. You can't be like pancakes. You're all happy at first, but then by the end, you're sick of 'em.
    While this applies to comedians and game makers alike, take it with a grain of salt. If you are new to game making and can't "start strong and finish strong" then it is much better to be pancakes then the reverse.

    Lets look at an imaginary game starring John. John is a standard hero who's parents died in a fire set by evil Imperial soliders. To defeat them John must traverse multiple fields, killing random ants and slimes for no real reason, to get a magic sword and topple the evil empire. Now you may sound skeptical, but wait! John dies at the end! This is clearly above the foolish "cliche" ideas littering the board. This is UNIQUE!
    ...but, you don't want to ruin your story, right? So, instead, this is what you post:

    My game stars John. John is a hero who's parents died in a fire set by evil Imperial soliders. To defeat them John travel the world and defeat monsters to get a magic sword and topple the evil empire. I can't say any more, but let me say theres a HUGE twist at the end.
    Don't expect too much excitement for your game. But lets say you finish and upload it anyway. (Even though almost everyone who's first posts pitches their game never actual does anything.) How many people, do you think, are going to download, unzip, put on the max drive, work with a crappy blue-bottom disk, upload, and uncrush? Numbers are thinning out. But a few probably will. And what do they get? They get to fight ants. They get to go through rushed together dungeons to get to this imperial castle. They get to fight through a generic RPG to get to your "exciting end."

    Poor John's gonna die, but is anyone going to see it?

    Now, I know you can't explain that John Dies at the End. So whats an aspiring game designer going to do? Actually, one small amendment could help a lot:

    John dies at the beginning.

    Suddenly, you've got a game staring a dead guy. Maybe he goes to a foggy, boring, flat purgatory. Turns out John wasn't the complete hero, and he goes "down under." Lots of rock, lava, red sky, and such. Maybe you'll have to fight your way through hell. What abilities does a dead guy have? Does he even fight at all? You have to get a magic sword to become king of hell by killing the demon overlord - but the swords owner was a paladin, and resides in heaven. So you've got to fight FOR good, and slowly make your way to heaven to get this sword and free hell from this demon overlord- or take it over, if thats your thing.

    You know what the best part is? This is not spoiler content. John dies at the beginning, so you can talk about it. Now, which one do you think people would rather download and play?

    And this has even more benefits then you think. You're working so hard on this beginning, so people who take the time to download your game are greeted with a high quality start. And since you're not rushing to get to this glorious "end" so people like your game more, you can make a much higher quality game when you're not pumped on making the end.

    No doubt some people in the first camp are smirking. But what about the end? That game is doomed to be pancakes. And who will think about the sequel when the last impression stinks? Looks like you've wasted your John dying limit!

    How DOES the game end? You've got a guy who worked to get to heaven. Suddenly he has to realize that, well, maybe he doesn't belong in hell at all. Maybe he's a good guy. Yet, he got some friends working his way up- does he have to bring himself back to hell after all this work to save a bunch of criminals and murderers? What if his own killer is down there? And lets say he does go back to hell. This John, who has his flaws but is overall a good guy who made some mistakes, now has to start murdering innocent people in heaven (and where do dead people go when they die again?) just to go back to hell.

    Don't you get it? When you've got an exciting beginning, when you've got good characters and a neat conflict, the ending writes itself. My challenge to aspiring game designers here- take every idea for your game, every awesome character, conflict, villain, location, and monster you can muster, tell us all about it here, and make sure we see it all within an couple hours of playing the game. The ending? You're not allowed to think of the end. Get the game going, and it will end when it wants to.

    #2
    Re: John Dies At The End: Twists and Pitching your Game.

    I swear to God THAT game needs to get made.
    "Mindless killing doesn't do a lot for me anymore." - Sampson

    Comment


      #3
      Re: John Dies At The End: Twists and Pitching your Game.

      When I was in the Discussion Forums main page (when you click the Pav logo at the top), all I saw were "John dies at..." and I was vaguely worried that John Mora was dead.

      Comment


        #4
        Re: John Dies At The End: Twists and Pitching your Game.

        Maybe I'll make the game then! And it WILL be John Mora!
        WHAT A TWIST

        Comment


          #5
          Re: John Dies At The End: Twists and Pitching your Game.

          So basically don't make a boring story. Good job Hito. The world is saved.

          NOW GO TO HELL!!!!!!!!! ZOMG TWIST ENDING!
          The Cyclops having only one eye, needed to seek shelter from the harsh sun. The shadow cast by the spheres gave him temporary respite.

          Comment


            #6
            Re: John Dies At The End: Twists and Pitching your Game.

            its something you think would be obvious, but people still have to be told. kinda sad.

            Most of the game ideas I've read here have the line "but let me say theres a HUGE twist at the end" or something close to that in them, and that's just terrible.



            Comment


              #7
              Re: John Dies At The End: Twists and Pitching your Game.

              Well that's because A 99% of people who make a game suck at it and B everyone who makes something is going to think their idea is awesome and they're just going to read this topic and say to themselves, "whew, glad my game isn't pancakes."
              Last edited by IRC; 08-14-2007, 12:19 PM.
              The Cyclops having only one eye, needed to seek shelter from the harsh sun. The shadow cast by the spheres gave him temporary respite.

              Comment


                #8
                Re: John Dies At The End: Twists and Pitching your Game.

                Yeah...so it's best to just belittle the guy that's trying to help...I bet THAT will help ANYBODY EVER.
                Last edited by Ωbright; 08-14-2007, 12:41 PM.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: John Dies At The End: Twists and Pitching your Game.

                  Originally posted by Dusk Raven View Post
                  When I was in the Discussion Forums main page (when you click the Pav logo at the top), all I saw were "John dies at..." and I was vaguely worried that John Mora was dead.
                  im tired so thats what i saw too. i was like what? john is dead?!

                  anti climatic, but all for the best.

                  Thank you Ωbright for the sig fix!
                  Card Three is released! You can find it here!

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: John Dies At The End: Twists and Pitching your Game.

                    if john dies at the beginning and goes to hell, how could he work his way up to heaven when that is impossible? i mean there should be some creativity involved in crafting a story, but really making a story that clearly makes no sense is just as bad as being cliche ridden crap.

                    its not even that the idea of working your way from heaven to hell is against the notion of a christian heaven and hell, but it makes absolutely no sense for any sort of religion or afterlife to offer redemption to those already dead because the entire purpose of the heaven/hell afterlife is to help enforce the laws of god in the mortal world. if you can work your way from hell to heaven, why not act accordingly and evil it up on earth, then just work hard in hell to make it to heaven? if it worked like that, morality would crumble in the hands of religion.

                    heres to creative and original storytelling, but the idea you present to support it is the same boring cliched crap as before.
                    420yolo!!!!!!111

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: John Dies At The End: Twists and Pitching your Game.

                      That was a fun read, Hito, and handy as well.

                      Honestly, I feel like I'm relearning everything I ever knew this summer.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: John Dies At The End: Twists and Pitching your Game.

                        Originally posted by exokgmfishz View Post
                        if john dies at the beginning and goes to hell, how could he work his way up to heaven when that is impossible? i mean there should be some creativity involved in crafting a story, but really making a story that clearly makes no sense is just as bad as being cliche ridden crap.

                        its not even that the idea of working your way from heaven to hell is against the notion of a christian heaven and hell, but it makes absolutely no sense for any sort of religion or afterlife to offer redemption to those already dead because the entire purpose of the heaven/hell afterlife is to help enforce the laws of god in the mortal world. if you can work your way from hell to heaven, why not act accordingly and evil it up on earth, then just work hard in hell to make it to heaven? if it worked like that, morality would crumble in the hands of religion.

                        heres to creative and original storytelling, but the idea you present to support it is the same boring cliched crap as before.
                        Suppose there was no religon? Then everyone would do whatever the hell they wanted on the normal earth, yes? So those who respected their neighbors would certainly get to heaven, but what about those basically good guys who lashed out because they had no fear of punishment after dying? What about bad acts with good intentions? The road to hell is paved with em, but (despite what real religions claim) a game maker is fully justified in saying it's a two way street.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: John Dies At The End: Twists and Pitching your Game.

                          It'll be nice if you get through to some people, but I doubt it. People just seem too stuck in the traditional way to break out and try for something original.

                          Also, if that post by exo isn't a joke, it's the dumbest thing I've ever read.
                          Ryner's Games

                          Simple Man's Quest for the Playground* - Winner: Pavilionite Biography Contest - Click Here!

                          Monster Must Die - Winner: Halloween Horror Contest - Click Here!

                          All you need to play is a computer, no outside program necessary!

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: John Dies At The End: Twists and Pitching your Game.

                            Originally posted by hitogoroshi View Post
                            Suppose there was no religon? Then everyone would do whatever the hell they wanted on the normal earth, yes? So those who respected their neighbors would certainly get to heaven, but what about those basically good guys who lashed out because they had no fear of punishment after dying? What about bad acts with good intentions? The road to hell is paved with em, but (despite what real religions claim) a game maker is fully justified in saying it's a two way street.
                            i dont understand the concept of a heaven and hell without religion. if a heaven and hell exist, and people know they exist, then they have to believe in some sort of divinity.

                            if theres a heaven and hell in a world that doesnt believe in anything divine, i still dont see the point of a system where someone who doesnt act righteous in their mortal life can redeem themselves after they die. the system of heaven and hell is basically wagering your soul between good and evil: you act good in life and dont take advantage of shady opportunities and you are rewarding later on in the afterlife, if it exists, or you decide to take advantage of those and while you will get paid off immediately in your mortal life, if an afterlife does exist you are punished eternally. a system that suggests you can go from the evil side of things to the good side of things negates any sort of morality that the idea of heaven and hell instills. on top of that, with the possibility of redemption/damnation in heaven and hell, you are basically destroying the notion of the afterlife because essentially what you are building is a second life for people that lasts eternally, but you can die.

                            whats really the difference in a hero that goes to hell, has to find a magic sword, then overthrow the demon overlord of hell so he can go to heaven, than a hero that lives on earth, and has to find a magic sword to overthrow an evil empire so everyone can live in peace?

                            you have the exact same elements, and essentially the exact same plot except with glorified names. im not trying to say what you present in terms of originality and thinking outside of cliches while storytelling is bad, but the example that you are giving is the same thing you are trying to fight against.
                            420yolo!!!!!!111

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: John Dies At The End: Twists and Pitching your Game.

                              Dude, I think you're taking this way too seriously.
                              Ryner's Games

                              Simple Man's Quest for the Playground* - Winner: Pavilionite Biography Contest - Click Here!

                              Monster Must Die - Winner: Halloween Horror Contest - Click Here!

                              All you need to play is a computer, no outside program necessary!

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X