So... how about that oil spill?

[jacquel]

Re: So... how about that oil spill?

I heard that BP is actually giving funding money to coastal universities themselves.

[The Toecutter]

Re: So... how about that oil spill?

Matt Simmons is saying there are other leaks under the sea floor away from the capped geyser:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scl2d...layer_embedded

I wonder if it's true?

And maybe, just maybe, this could start the cultural change needed for people to take non-expendable energy sources seriously....

But I DOUBT IT

Political change, not cultural change, is what is needed to get said energy sources in use. It's probably not going to happen in time to get much built; the people in charge are allowing the multinationals to loot the treasury of the very funds needed to make the transition, nevermind the fact that there is in existence more debt than assets effectively rendering the U.S. bankrupt.

The U.S. has "screwed the pooch" with regard to renewable energy about 10 years ago, and Bush II was the final nail in its coffin. A transition to renewable energy will take at minimum 10 years; it will require 20 years according to the Hirsch report. It will also require trillions of dollars which were, unfortunately, squandered(and still are being squandered) on oil wars.

***edit***

Well, here's some interesting information regarding whether there are other leaks:

http://blog.alexanderhiggins.com/201...ill-sea-floor/

[Cutter De Blanc]

Re: So... how about that oil spill?

****ing incompetence.

[Rodak]

Re: So... how about that oil spill?

Big Tropical Storm heading Right For The Site!!

Predictions?

[Shard]

Re: So... how about that oil spill?

As long as there's nothing on the surface that's still working on the sea floor, whatever's happening topside ought to have no effect on the well/cap.

For the oil that's already in the gulf, the storm will spread and dilute it. Given that we're in the beginning of the hurricane season, we're probably seeing the first of several evacuations of critical equipment and personnel from the site.

[Red Dragon]

Re: So... how about that oil spill?

The U.S. has "screwed the pooch" with regard to renewable energy about 10 years ago, and Bush II was the final nail in its coffin. A transition to renewable energy will take at minimum 10 years; it will require 20 years according to the Hirsch report. It will also require trillions of dollars which were, unfortunately, squandered(and still are being squandered) on oil wars.

Maybe they'll legalese drugs and prostitution and tax it to get us on the right track.

...

olol

[American Hero]

Re: So... how about that oil spill?

Hopefully this storm will push the oil down into Mexico so we don't have to worry about it anymore.

[The Toecutter]

Re: So... how about that oil spill?

A lot of people living near the coast are going to sickened by the increased oil/corexit vapor in the air as a result of a hurricane. It remains to be seen just how many.

[JPS]

Re: So... how about that oil spill?

Maybe they'll legalese drugs and prostitution and tax it to get us on the right track.

...

olol

Couldn't you imagine all the prostitutes banding together to file a class action lawsuit saying that sex can't be taxed because its not using anything materialistic?

On topic, LA cant catch a break, they spent all this money to rebuild New Orleans now they still wont be able to use it, first a hurricane, now the oil spill.

How flammable is crude oil? Itd suck if a hurricane spread it throughout the city then someone missed the trashcan when throwing a match away.

[Red Dragon]

Re: So... how about that oil spill?

Couldn't you imagine all the prostitutes banding together to file a class action lawsuit saying that sex can't be taxed because its not using anything materialistic?

Actually no, it's a service, like a plumber only using his wrench to fix your sink.

Only the plumbing done...

Well you get the point.

[The Toecutter]

Re: So... how about that oil spill?

Couldn't you imagine all the prostitutes banding together to file a class action lawsuit saying that sex can't be taxed because its not using anything materialistic?

That would be an awesome day for those freedom-loving Americans everywhere!

On topic, LA cant catch a break, they spent all this money to rebuild New Orleans now they still wont be able to use it, first a hurricane, now the oil spill.

I've argued before just how stupid it is to waste money rebuilding that dump. It is below sea level, and there is no cost-effective or realistic means to change that. Try viewing maps of New Orleans from the 1800s; they built the original part of the settlement above sea level for a reason. Unfortunately, short-sighted politicians decided to expand it to such a degree that most of it is/was below sea level.

However, Halliburton and their ilk saw dollar signs with the opportunity to 'rebuild', payed for by taxpayers... including grossly inflated profit margins pocketed mostly by upper management.

How flammable is crude oil? Itd suck if a hurricane spread it throughout the city then someone missed the trashcan when throwing a match away.

The flash point of crude oil is approxamately 135-150 degrees farenheight depending on a variety of environmental conditions and the quality of the oil.

However, crude oil diluted to the degree as that which is washing ashore, cannot be ignited. A greater concentration and thickness at the waters' surface would be required to cause a fire.

[orius]

Re: So... how about that oil spill?

I've argued before just how stupid it is to waste money rebuilding that dump. It is below sea level, and there is no cost-effective or realistic means to change that. Try viewing maps of New Orleans from the 1800s; they built the original part of the settlement above sea level for a reason. Unfortunately, short-sighted politicians decided to expand it to such a degree that most of it is/was below sea level.

Short-sighted and a lack of ecological understanding. The early 20th Century saw a number of flood control projects on the lower Mississippi that made things worse instead of better. Probably some of this urban planning took into account these flood controls and levees and such thinking natural forces could be forcibly tamed. And don't forget some of the political corruption that has plagued the city over the years.

You're also ignoring the racial elements to rebuilding. Some of those neighborhoods maybe should have been left alone after Katrina, but given the disproportionate number of racial minorities displaced by the disaster, no politician is brave or stupid enough to suggest rebuilding the neighborhoods in a better location. They'd be slammed as prejudiced, racist oppressors by their opponents nationwide no matter how they approach the issue. Doesn't help either that many of these minorities, particularly blacks, would have good reasons for being distrustful of such plans either.

[The Toecutter]

Re: So... how about that oil spill?

An excellent article from the Huffington post covering the extent of the damage and censorship:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jerry-..._b_662971.html

Over the Gulf from the Source (official term for the Deepwater Horizon spill site) in to shore there is virtually no sign of life anywhere in the vast areas covered by the dispersed oil and Corexit. This in a region previously abundant with life above and below the ocean's surface in all its diversity. For months now, scientists and environmental organizations have been asking where all the animals are. The reported numbers of marine animals lost from BP fall far short of the observed loss. The water has a heavy appearance and the slightly iridescent greenish yellow color that extends as far as the eye can see.

...

The majority of the disposal operations were carried out under cover of darkness. The areas along the beaches and coastal Islands where the dead animals were collected were closed off by the U.S. Coast Guard. On shore, private contractors and local law enforcement officials kept off limits the areas where the remains of the dead animals were dumped, mainly at the Magnolia Springs landfill by Waste Management where armed guards controlled access. The nearby weigh station where the Waste Management trucks passed through with their cargoes was also restricted by at least one Sheriff's deputies in a patrol car, 24/7.

Write your congressman, at least. BP can not be allowed to get away with this and get away with not paying for the externalized costs. Their PR machine is running at full load, but all the PR in the world is not going to change the fact that they have killed the Gulf of Mexico. On TV they talk about the oil "disappearing", when in reality, the corexit simply allowed it to sink to the bottom of the ocean, following the currents, and killing everything it touches. An oyster bed was even recently re-opened for fishing, and it is completely covered in black sludge! Corexit is highly carcinogenic and a significant perentage of those living near where the oil/corexit mix has washed ashore are going to have permanent potentially fatal health problems as a result.

You're also ignoring the racial elements to rebuilding. Some of those neighborhoods maybe should have been left alone after Katrina, but given the disproportionate number of racial minorities displaced by the disaster, no politician is brave or stupid enough to suggest rebuilding the neighborhoods in a better location. They'd be slammed as prejudiced, racist oppressors by their opponents nationwide no matter how they approach the issue. Doesn't help either that many of these minorities, particularly blacks, would have good reasons for being distrustful of such plans either.

The job of people in government is to do the right thing, and not save face or do what is a politically convenient act to get re-elected. Sadly, that seems too much to ask these days... If members of government aren't doing their jobs, why have government?

[The Toecutter]

Re: So... how about that oil spill?

Here is a video that was interesting(this is just the first part; there are more and I recommend you watch them all):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPhPv...layer_embedded

***edit***

For a picture of the extent of the damage as of last month, watch this two-part media coverage from Australia:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9YoU...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSbfmJQeWAk&NR=1

The Huffington post has an article describing crab larvae coated with corexit and oil:

But the answer is clear: In part due to the1.8 million gallons of dispersant that BP used, a lot of the estimated 200 million or more gallons of oil that spewed out of the blown well remains under the surface of the Gulf in plumes of tiny toxic droplets. And it's short- and long-term effects could be profound.

...

Perry told the Huffington Post that the small size of the droplets was clearly a factor in how the oil made its way under the crab larvae shells. Perry said the oil droplets in the water "are just the right size that probably in the process of swimming or respiring, they're brought into that cavity."

...

Diaz also expressed concern that dispersed oil droplets could end up doing great damage to the Gulf's many undersea coral reefs. "If the droplets agglomerate with sediment," he said, "they could even settle to the bottom."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_664298.html

I also found the following article interesting, as it debunks the government's recent report, a report that concluded that a majority of the oil has disappeared:

As BP finishes pumping cement into the damaged Deepwater Horizon wellhead Thursday, some scientists are taking issue with a new U.S. government report that says the "vast majority" of the Gulf of Mexico oil spill has been taken care of by nature and "robust" cleanup efforts.

In addition, experts warn, much of the toxic oil from the worst spill in U.S. history may be trapped under Gulf beaches—where it could linger for years—or still migrating into the ocean depths, where it's a "3-D catastrophe," one scientist said.

...

According to Hollander, the government can account for only about 25 percent of the spilled Gulf oil—the portion that's been skimmed, burned off, directly collected, and so on.

The remaining 75 percent is still unaccounted for, he said.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...e-environment/

The following comment on that article was also interesting:

username
August 7, 2010, 1:37 p.m. ET

The only "mystery" about the latest utterly deceptive, misleading, and inaccurate "news" stories proclaiming, "The Oil is GONE!! It's a MIRACLE!!! A MYSTERY!!! WHERE DID IT GO???? SO MAGICAL!!!!" is the following: When was the last time people from all walks of science lost every bit of their ethics and regard for the truth? How do you get chumps like this guy "Physicist" to put their names on such utterly specious reports which omit so much information that they imply that 200 Million gallons of raw crude Oil just "disappeared"? Seriously. The oil is in and under the sand, and it is in the water. There is no mystery. Every core sample taken, and every site inspection (that hasn't been blocked by BP employed Police departments and BP paid ex-military goons) has found oil on and under the coastal surface. In places it is so thick it bubbles up when you step on the surface. http://www.wafb.com/global/story.asp?s=12921374 There were strong allegations that BP simply dumped sand on much of the oil using heavy equipment at night. Those allegations are detailed here: http://www.jonlowder.com/2010/07/is-bp-burying-oil.html How did BP get these former scientists and mathematicians to put there names on a report which did zero field work, employed zero people to walk the beaches and take core samples, and included zero visits to the areas closest to the spill emission point? Have we reached the point where it is not only possible, but easy to pay off entire branches of our government (EPA, Coast Guard, NOAA) to get them to endorse any lie that a company wants to tell? If the answer to that question is "Yes", then how can we rely on anything told to us by the government agencies we pay 30% of our earnings to support, and whose employees' generous pensions we pay to sustain? When it so easily publishes big lies like this, is it worth even keeping those departments, and those people funded,salaried and pensioned in our government? I think not.



It's also heartbreaking what is happening to our marshes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ly7_n...eature=related

[The Toecutter]

Re: So... how about that oil spill?

Someone is preventing wildlife experts from accessing the site and gathering data. They got all of the proper clearances to fly over the site in New Orleans; when they were in mid-air, a caller would claim that their clearances had been revoked. This happened again the next day. The wildlife experts never were able to find out who had directly issued the orders(watch video):

http://www.mnn.com/green-tech/resear...comments-52798

The red algae in all contaminated zones of the Gulf are dying out; the deep ocean is likely to be worse off than the areas the red algae are exposed to:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbfkECfrwPQ

The Gulf's current dead zone was at minimum the size of New Jersey as of early August, twice as large as last year, and the contaminated zone is rumored to today be as large as Ohio:

The same day at an AFL/CIO convention, Obama hailed the news, saying "the long battle to stop the leak and contain the oil is finally close to coming to an end."

False. From the start, the Obama administration conspired with BP, imposing censorship and cover-up, barring the public and news media from coming within 65 feet of clean-up of "booming operations, boom, or oil spill response operations under penalty of law" without Coast Guard-authorized permission.

The agency is a virtual BP arm, now retired Admiral Thad Allen its de facto representative as National Incident Commander, doing its bidding, suppressing the disaster's severity, including enforcing the FAA's mid-June announced no-fly zone, not needed if there was nothing to hide. There's plenty, why journalists and other violators faced up to five years in prison and a $40,000 fine for telling the truth, now mostly hidden, not gone.

...

Louisiana State University (LSU) biological oceanographer Robert Carney says scientists are finding plenty of oil, under Louisiana islands, beneath Florida beaches, and in unseen ocean reaches.

Biological oceanographers Markus Huettel and Joel Kostka discovered large oil swaths up to two feet deep on a "cleaned" Pensacola beach. With little oxygen, it'll remain for decades. It gets trapped underground when tiny droplets penetrate porous sand or when waves wash it ashore, burying it. Huettel explained further that previous oil under beaches migrates into groundwater, causing hazards to wildlife and humans, not knowing what they're drinking is contaminated.

He noted also that deep sea spills are "unchartered territory," dispersants for the first time used at depths down to 5,000 feet, settling oil on the seafloor, the mixture suspended and preserved, causing long-term harm for deep-sea animals, and disrupting a large part of the food chain.

University of South Florida (USF) chemical oceanographer David Hollander is also alarmed, calling the 75% claim "ludicrous." USF scientists and Vernon Asper, University of Southern Mississippi oceanographer, were "lambasted" by NOAA and Coast Guard officials when they reported a giant undersea plume, NOAA Administrator Jane Lubchenco telling them to stop "speculating" when, according to Asper, "We had solid evidence, rock solid."

...

Minimally, over 44,000 square miles of ocean are contaminated, an area comparable to Ohio or Pennsylvania. Some estimates say nearly 80,000, more than Florida and Massachusetts combined, the health hazard immense, the waters causing "internal bleeding and hemorrhaging in workers and dolphins alike," according to senior EPA analyst Hugh Kaufman, a rare responsible official.

On Democracy Now, he accused BP and the administration of cover-up and deceit, including using dispersants "to hide the volume of oil that has been released," far more than official reports, to save BP up to billions in fines. "That's the purpose of using dispersants, not to protect the public health or environment. Quite the opposite."

...

On May 4, National Geographic asked if the "Gulf Oil Spill (was) a 'Dead Zone in the Making,' " saying if it can't be contained it could happen. An early August update explained that beneath the surface lies:

"a turbid cloud of stirred-up sediment and dead sea creatures. Flaccid jellyfish floated on the flat currents of tiny corpses. On the sea bottom the waters were gray and terribly empty. No coral, no fish, no algae, nothing but the noxious oily streaks of red tides and lethal plankton blooms. Everything in this 7,000 square-mile zone (the size of Connecticut and Rhode Island combined) has died from lack of oxygen. It (was) if every person in a city were suddenly sucked dry of air and suffocated...."

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/54422