Give Them Back

[The Toecutter]

During hurricane Katrina, our government and law enforcement have illegally confiscated firearms from law-abiding citizens, and have never returned them. I've mentioned it on these forums before, but the following site from the NRA covers this issue in brief with a series of videos:

http://www.givethemback.com/

Click on each topic and you'll see a video presented.

Police stormed peoples' homes and seized their weapons without a warrant or probable cause. This is certainly a violation of the 4th amendment right against unreasonable search and seizure and 2nd amendment right that garuntees the right to bear arms. One group of cops tackled an old lady in her own home simply because she had a gun, even though she was threatening no one with it and had it held in the palm of her hand. You can see them slam her down, caught on tape. Even when those who have had their firearms confiscated went to retrieve them, and had their serial numbers written on their gun cases and proof of purchases present, their firearms were never even returned.

This also illustrates perfectly why gun registration laws are such a bad idea, and an infringement on the rights of a free people...

These incidents were by and large ignored by the mainstream media.

There are reasons why having unregistered firearms is a good thing. If the government or law enforcement doesn't know you have it, then it's that much more difficult for them to take it. It's your 4th amendment right not to have to let anyone but yourself know what firearms you own. It's your 2nd amendment right to own those firearms.

[Goufunaki]

Re: Give Them Back

There are reasons why having unregistered firearms is a good thing. If the government or law enforcement doesn't know you have it, then it's that much more difficult for them to take it. It's your 4th amendment right not to have to let anyone but yourself know what firearms you own. It's your 2nd amendment right to own those firearms.

I was with you until this part.

Confiscating the firearms without any warrant is wrong, it's your protection and property. However, you're speaking as if EVERYONE would use it strictly for self defense.

If someone gets shot or murdered, examining the bullet to match the gun, then searching for the gun and its owner is easier when people are registered. It's a dangerous weapon, and if in the wrong hands it would be used for anything BUT self defense. Thats why they do background checks when you go buy one.

[Valkysas]

Re: Give Them Back

Yeah, how DARE they take those people's weapons away. its not like a good chunk of the population ran around shooting each other and stealing everything in sight. no siree.

[Caciss]

Re: Give Them Back

I mean, c'mon Terr -- yeah we have rights -- but you take things to the extreme and back.

[Owl of Parliament]

Re: Give Them Back

I don't really have an opinion about this. Why? Because there are more important things to worry about than if people are getting their guns back or not.

[Valkysas]

Re: Give Them Back

GUNS BEFORE HOMES!!!!!
GET YOUR PRIORITIES STRAIGHT! PEOPLE NEED GUNS.

[d2king10]

Re: Give Them Back

GUNS BEFORE HOMES!!!!!
GET YOUR PRIORITIES STRAIGHT! PEOPLE NEED GUNS.

YEAH SO THEN WE CAN SHOOT DEM MOTHA ****AS UP LIKE HOME DIGGITIES ON SKILLETS BITCHAS!

[The Toecutter]

Re: Give Them Back

In the past, it was recognized that the 2nd amendment is the right to protect all others. Sad that to protect it, it probably would have had to actually been used. A symptom of bad policy run rampant. In cases where someone of law enforcement may have actually been hurt over this issue, the policy makers should have expected it. Ray Nagin and Browne both committed treason. I'm amused that this all happened under a Republican administration who claims it will protect the 2nd amendment, but by no means surprised by it.

If someone gets shot or murdered, examining the bullet to match the gun, then searching for the gun and its owner is easier when people are registered. It's a dangerous weapon, and if in the wrong hands it would be used for anything BUT self defense. Thats why they do background checks when you go buy one.

'Easier' alone doesn't warrant a clear violation of one's rights. If they are suspected of having committed a crime with the gun based on such and such evidence, a judge recognizes this, and issues a warrant to search the gun, or if a cop sees a murder or robbery being committed in plain sight and amnages to apprehend the suspect, sure search the gun. A background check of all gun owners? This lead precisely to people having their rights violated and their property confiscated when they did absolutely nothing wrong.

Besides, a criminal seeking to commit a crime can obtain a firearm illegally without a background check anyway. Registration is not the deterrent one might be lured to think it is.

I could go down to the Delmar Loop right here in St. Louis and pick up an AK47 for about $200 if I wanted to. Any old street thug could do the same. The background check didn't serve its purpose in these sorts of instances. Nor does gun control prevent anyone from obtaining them in nations where guns are banned outright.

Yeah, how DARE they take those people's weapons away. its not like a good chunk of the population ran around shooting each other and stealing everything in sight. no siree.

A much larger chunk of the population didn't run around shooting each other and stealing everything in sight.

Further, on videotape, there have been police and national gaurd caught in the act of looting as well. It isn't as if law enforcement is sufficiently infallible as to allow them to violate one's constitutional right to bear arms on a whim.

I mean, c'mon Terr -- yeah we have rights -- but you take things to the extreme and back.

Many would consider one advocating that they have the right to bear arms and that it shall not be infringed as an extreme given such topics are becoming less politically correct. But what's so extreme about the right to not have your property confiscated without due process, or the right to own a firearm without worrying that some law enforcement official or government official is going to illegally confiscate it?

[Caciss]

Re: Give Them Back

Further, on videotape, there have been police and national gaurd caught in the act of looting as well. It isn't as if law enforcement is sufficiently infallible as to allow them to violate one's constitutional right to bear arms.

Links?

Many would consider advocating that the right to bear arms shall not be infringed as an extreme because such topics are becoming less politically correct. But what's so extreme about the right to not have your property confiscated without due process, or the right to own a firearm without worrying that some law enforcement official or government official is going to illegally confiscate it?

Peoples guns being taken away during a massive natural disaster, is a little different than the goverment just walking up and taking your private property.

[Red Dragon]

Re: Give Them Back

You do know our excuse to go into Iraq right? They "had" Weapons of Mass Destruction! Our government doesn't care about the right to bear arms.


(joke)

[IRC]

Re: Give Them Back

GUNS BEFORE HOMES!!!!!
GET YOUR PRIORITIES STRAIGHT! PEOPLE NEED GUNS.

If we give them guns then they can get homes for themselves.

It's win win.

[Jamos' Old Account]

Re: Give Them Back

Short question:

Terr, do you ever see the good that the police do? Just curious.

[The Toecutter]

Re: Give Them Back

Links?

Here's a couple:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xN2DmtIm6Qo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7Kc1sBntXI

Then complaints of national gaurd looting stores, one from a WalMart executive, as described in the book Disaster: Hurricane Katrina and The Failure of Homeland Security by Christopher Cooper. Other instances abound and you'll find them if you search around.

Peoples guns being taken away during a massive natural disaster, is a little different than the goverment just walking up and taking your private property.

Hardly. These rights do not have exceptions. They were acknowledged for a reason. But they are often ignored. Just look at the recent immenent domein proceedings.

Terr, do you ever see the good that the police do? Just curious.

Yes, but it's getting rarer with each passing day. This country did just fine before it had the sorts of organized police forces as we know them today. They are a relatively new construct of the late 19th and early 20th century.

[Red Dragon]

Re: Give Them Back

Our rights get violated all the time. Somtimes for good, somtimes (ok MOST of the time) for bad.

[jvrlopez]

Re: Give Them Back