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My Leftie rant on the Tax Cut

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    My Leftie rant on the Tax Cut

    Now I know everyone's talking about the Gay Marriage bill...it won't go through. It statistically can't. It's just giving Republicans some firepower against Bush's high 20 low 30-something percent approval rating. If anyone says that gay relationships don't last, Me and Xeno have lasted longer than the average marriage lasts (2 years), and I know plenty of others who have lasted longer than that as well.

    I know there's plenty of people here that can make this point far more elequently, and have probly posted these points already, but I feel like ranting because I was just talking to someone about this. Let me defend the tax cut rhetoric since I'm pretty far left...

    The big tax cut and getting rid of the inheritance tax (now called the DEATH TAX for dramatic effect) really only does benefit the top 1% the most is because, you have to understand...the money these people get back, which is in the hundreds of thousands, is a drop in the bucket to them. It doesn't encourage them to spend and boost the economy, because they're doing that already.

    This isn't money that would go to government salaries, but rather the government programs that would benefit people to get out of poverty, educational training and the like, also student loans and scholarships. In fact, they cut the program that gave Xeno his head start that makes it possible for him to have a career in 3D. Now, if you want a success story, get back to me in 1 to 2 years, but I'm pretty confident in his ability with the progress we've made.

    The tax cut goes the most to families that really don't have to work any more, often reffered to as Legacies. Ever watch MTV's "My Sweet 16," where a kid isn't satisfied until she gets not 1 expensive car, but 2? It's worse than that. These people don't work for their money anymore, and pulling back the tax cut will barely effect them, and go towards efforts that are really needed.

    Plus, as far as people living off the government, it's not as good as you think. I also know this because Xeno gets money from the government for being legally blind, and it really prevents him from getting a job with A LOT of people. He has to find someone local he can take a bus to because he can never get a liscense, and the jobs themselves require a certain amount of vision, like the big V denied him a testing job for that reason. He gets $400-something a month, 300 of that goes to rent, 100 covers SOME of the groceries. On top of that, he doesn't get a check if he's getting an income.

    Now, I'm not a socialist commie or anything...I understand there needs to be an economic ladder, being the rich, middle class, and poor...but the space between the three standards hasn't been this high since the 1920's. A recent study revealed that you are more likely to accomplish the "American Dream," pulling up your bootstraps out of poverty in Europe than you are in America. I really have personally known people in all 3 classes...it's not hard to find middle and poor people to know, but my aunt & uncle are mega-rich, live in Glen Ellyn with all the monsterous houses, and my cousins do NOTHING and live off mommy and daddy's wealth. They actually buy them condos to live in and just hang out and party. One of those 6 cousins is an acception to the rule.

    People have a problem with money going toward government programs because they're incredibly hard to prove that they're working, but I have known quite a few people and have heard quite a few stories of people that have benefited and greatly helped them on their career path to helping them out of poverty. On top of that, studies show that the tax cut really had no effect on the economy, and that 40% of the homes bought in the housing boom were SECOND HOMES...in other words, rich people.

    If you think a Senator's salary is bloated, it's nothing compared to those living off their great-great-grandfather's invention or entrapeneurship. That money could be going toward government programs that actually help people, which more and more have been cut since the Bush Administration came into office. I'll just end my piece there.
    Last edited by Kire; 06-04-2006, 04:02 PM.

    #2
    Re: My Leftie rant on the Tax Cut

    Wrong forum

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      #3
      Re: My Leftie rant on the Tax Cut

      I didn't read the whole thing, but I'm assuming this is meant for the free forum.
      "What if like...there was an exact copy of you somewhere, except they're the opposite gender, like you guys could literally have a freaky friday moment and nothing would change. Imagine the best friendship that could be found there."

      Comment


        #4
        Re: My Leftie rant on the Tax Cut

        OOPS! I'll move it.

        Comment


          #5
          Re: My Leftie rant on the Tax Cut

          There are lots of studies that back the tax cut, in fact, most economists in general are for tax cuts of any kind. Right now I have an internship in a certain congressional rep's office, and I was going through newspaper editorials (we save them for reference later on) and one was about a study that said low income workers actually benifit from the tax cuts more than any other group.

          But the numbers game is a moot point.

          The question is what right does the government have to take your money and distribute it to other people? Your partner is blind, and for that I'm sorry that it makes it harder for him to work. But why, tell me, should we be entitled to pay for his misfortune? I'm all for charities and helping people out, but the government cannot be trusted with money. Congress has proven time and time again that they are irresponsible when it comes to spending. Neither you nor me is going to get a social security check, and soon the debt is going to be so incredibly high that they'll have to jack inflation up to the point where your money is worth next to nothing. And what do we have left to show for it? A military that isn't necessary and bridges to literaly nowhere.

          Keep as much money away from the government as possible, please.

          Comment


            #6
            Re: My Leftie rant on the Tax Cut

            I'm a low-income worker, and I didn't benefit at all from these "tax cuts." In fact, I had to pay them money for the first time this year, and I only made about $500 more total income. The working class losers get screwed, everyone else can take an extra vacation.

            As for cutting all the government assistance, there are a lot of programs that are ESSENTIAL for the general public. Some examples: programs for free or reduced cost cancer/health screenings for those without money or health insurance, Pell grants and other government assistance (Dave and many other people wouldn't have been able to attend college without it), and medical transportation programs for the seriously ill and disabled. Without these types of programs in place, our society suffers.

            If the government did a better job of using the money they already have (ex: killing the "war" on drugs, not spending $500 on a single hammer, not going to war in countries overseas) I think we would have enough money to improve these programs and more without ever having to raise taxes again.
            Last edited by Nixon; 06-04-2006, 07:58 PM.
            Eat Smello.

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              #7
              Re: My Leftie rant on the Tax Cut

              The thing about tax cuts is not about giving the rich a tasty treat and screwing the poor to middle class. It is about making things fair. Just because a rich man has a lot of money doesn’t mean he should have to shoulder the tax burden of America. No, he should have to pay the same kind of tax Americans do.

              Our economy is crazy strong right now, despite Katrina, despite the war, and despite the 20-30% popularity of Bush. This is due, among other things, to tax cuts. And it is simply a fable that the tax cuts only help the rich. I, a poor college fellow who works part time as a van driver at a hotel making $8.50 an hour in order to buy food for (hopefully) a whole week, have noticed my bankroll grow since Bush came in his second term, not dramatically, but noticeably. On the other hand, one of my co-workers who is a good friend and has been working at the hotel for nearly 4 years just got a promotion to front-desk manager. He makes tons of money now, but he is frustrated because, as e told me, "the more money I make, the more the government taxes." That is messed up. People should have the ability to become wealthy based on how hard they work. The government shouldn’t tax more simply because a man is making more money. Instead it should be the same for everyone, either a flat tax or a percentage tax.
              http://www.brandonMdennis.com

              "You wrote that the world doesn't need a saviour, but every day I hear people crying for one." - Superman. Superman Returns.

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                #8
                Re: My Leftie rant on the Tax Cut

                As much as I hate to say it, Rone is right; it really should be up to the rich to decide if they want to donate or help out other people with their money or if they just want to be slobs and buy condos for their kids to party in...

                and honestly we all know which they'd choose.
                Last edited by DK; 06-04-2006, 11:49 PM.

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                  #9
                  Re: My Leftie rant on the Tax Cut

                  I think the economy varies depending on where you live. I've watched things get worse here.

                  I started out going to college at the end of Clin-ton's reign. I was promised job placement and paid internships and all sorts of keen stuff once I finished my degree. Thanks to the crappy economy here in Tex-ass, none of that ever materialized, and it's still tough for college grads (and anyone else) to find decent work.

                  Bush promised us tax cuts and more, but none of it has ever been the least bit beneficial for me or Dave.
                  Eat Smello.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: My Leftie rant on the Tax Cut

                    somehow, I managed to read the topic title as "My Lettuce rank on the Tax Cut"



                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: My Leftie rant on the Tax Cut

                      I'm going to preface this by saying that I got my degree in Economics. It turns out I haven't been invited to be Secretary of the Treasury yet (fingers still crossed), but I have learned one or two things about taxes.

                      Originally posted by Sampson
                      There are lots of studies that back the tax cut, in fact, most economists in general are for tax cuts of any kind. Right now I have an internship in a certain congressional rep's office, and I was going through newspaper editorials (we save them for reference later on) and one was about a study that said low income workers actually benifit from the tax cuts more than any other group.
                      The first thing you need to get is that all tax cuts are not equal. Whom a tax cut benefits depends on the economic incidence (whose head it falls on) of the tax cut legislation. I'm not going to get into the nuts and bolts (unless you actually want me to, I can't imagine that you would), but suffice to say that the "trickle-down" theory where you alleviate tax burdens of the wealthy under the assumption that it benefits all really screws over the lower and middle classes. Will it help the economy overall? Sure, the wealthy and businesses will then have more money to put towards investment, always a good thing when business is concerned. The cost, as Kire mentioned, is social programs generally. (That's assuming this administration still thinks a balanced budget is a good idea).

                      Originally posted by Roneatek
                      The thing about tax cuts is not about giving the rich a tasty treat and screwing the poor to middle class. It is about making things fair. Just because a rich man has a lot of money doesn’t mean he should have to shoulder the tax burden of America. No, he should have to pay the same kind of tax Americans do.
                      As I said above, tax cuts may be a benefit to any class, depending upon how they're written, but let's get this straight right now. Taxes are not about being fair. The economy is not a tool with which to mete out social equity. A rich man benefits disproportionately from his enhanced income than a poor man does from his (even factoring in social programs). A rich man spends a much smaller percentage of his income on food, shelter, and the necessities of life than a poor man does. America promises equality of opportunity (and you can argue whether it delivers), but it does not promise equality of treatment when there are vast gulfs between the state of one citizen and another.

                      Originally posted by Roneatek
                      Our economy is crazy strong right now, despite Katrina, despite the war, and despite the 20-30% popularity of Bush. This is due, among other things, to tax cuts. And it is simply a fable that the tax cuts only help the rich. People should have the ability to become wealthy based on how hard they work. The government shouldn’t tax more simply because a man is making more money. Instead it should be the same for everyone, either a flat tax or a percentage tax.
                      Our economy is not crazy strong right now. It's middling. There are some key indicators that promise an expanding economy and other key indicators that point towards recession. The jobs that have been added, though numerous, consist primarily of low-paying, low-benefit service sector jobs. Jobs in manufacturing and construction (blue-collar type) have fallen off as the housing market has cooled. This is a little unsettling as we're headed into summer, usually a good time for the construction sector. People do have the ability to become wealthy based on how hard they work, however let's not be myopic here and assume that work ethic is the only factor. Here's why you can't tax everyone the same way, because prices aren't charged in percentages. You could, in theory, take 34% of everyone's income (meeting your requirement of fairness) if stores could make you pay 15% of your income for groceries, if 33% of your income could be taken for housing. This would lead to an orange being $.015 for some and $15,000.00 for others. The flat tax rate that you mention, that Republicans have been banging on about for 15 years or so now, is part of a much more sophisticated overhaul of the tax system put forth by left-leaning economists. The flat tax rate is one major plank of three, but doing away with the other two eliminates any illusion of fairness. I can give you the details if you want to see them, but again, it's fairly involved.
                      Last edited by Shard; 06-05-2006, 02:20 PM.
                      So you're a fish out of water...
                      Keep swimming.
                      What else can you do?

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