Bush going to veto our security...

[Vonwert]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/02/...ity/index.html

Even Bill Friest doesn't want this company to run our ports, that should tell you something.

[Shard]

Re: Bush going to veto our security...

I'm torn on this. On the one hand, it's nice to see fragmentation in the Republican Party, maybe it'll be enough to break the stranglehold they have on the legislative branch in the coming election. It seems like a remarkably stupid move to make politically.

On the other hand, if the administration is going to justify every action it takes in the name of security, and then okays a state-run security corporation with possible (tenuous though they might be) ties to terrorists then I can only imagine we'll see nothing but politics of distraction between now and November. Maybe they hope they can ride the tide of anger into office on the next attack as well.

[The Toecutter]

Re: Bush going to veto our security...

When the voting machines can be tampered with without any record of that having occured, it's not quite an election...

This is a sad testament to the future America may face. It's manufacturing base has been sold for a song, and now that that is gone, it is starting to sell whatever tangible assets it has left, even our ports to terrorist nations under the guise of security. Sweet, sweet irony.

These politicians don't appear to care about protecting our freedoms; they are instead withering them away whenever they can make money in doing so.

[Magus]

Re: Bush going to veto our security...

Here's what I always wondered: what are they gonna use all those sweet, sweey money bags on when it's the Apocalypse?

A trip to the MOON?

A CENTER FOR ANTS?

[The Toecutter]

Re: Bush going to veto our security...

Here's what I always wondered: what are they gonna use all those sweet, sweey money bags on when it's the Apocalypse?

They're most likely to have died of old age by the time that happens, but even if they don't, they'll keep their standard of living going strong to the expense of everyone else. In the meantime, we have sheikhs building luxury Audi sedans out of silver and palaces with an entire square mile of living space, Dubai building $10 billion skyscrapers, enclosed ski resorts in the middle of a desert and artificial tropical islands, and the American political elite waging wreckless wars over the world's remaining resources and hoarding every last ounce of gold and oil they can while threatening with military force everyone who tries to trade oil in Euros, lest the dollar collapse...

Riches to be had everywhere, but not a pittance to the common American and as the poor in the Arab nations starve. All in our best interests of course, right? 911! Terror! Evil doers!

[Magus]

Re: Bush going to veto our security...

What the HECK is THAT?

Looks like something out of Xenosaga. Except it'd be in space. And gay.

[The Toecutter]

Re: Bush going to veto our security...

What the HECK is THAT?

Looks like something out of Xenosaga. Except it'd be in space. And gay.

It's an artificial island with an entire city built onto it.

And Americans helped fund it. That oil money we've been forced to pay to have our standard of living(being that Americans are denied alternatives) hasn't simply sat around you know...

Citizens within the United Arab Emirates were caught funneling money to Al Qaeda pre 911, and thier government didn't do a damn thing until after that event had already happened. It now appears that after allowing the U.S. to station troops before the assault on Iraq, the UAE is cashing in on the deal, since the Saudis refused to cooperate in that regard.

All it takes is a few employees sympathetic to Al Qaeda to smuggle in all they need, and then we got a problem on our hands. Meanwhile, the U.S. executive branch along with the UAE could care less about it. They both see dollar signs, and would rather pass new security measures entail stripping civil liberties to placate an ignorant public, despite that doing so makes us neither secure nor free...

One more terror attack, and even more excuse for civil liberties to be stripped to the benefit of defense contractors, oil companies, and politicians while the real issues surrounding these attacks go unadressed.

[Karr Lord of Chaos]

Re: Bush going to veto our security...

so whats your solution to that, stop buying oil from the middle east? its unfortunate that companies and goverments funnel money into terroistic orginizations, but they have something we want and as long as we need that then we may have to live with them doing just that. or bush could bomb them, which would make the us worse then any terroist group, destroying a countery for their own gain - ohh wait they did that in iraq didnt they?

terrorists exist not becuase they want to cause havoc, but becuase of forign polocies that hinder them. if you use your power to exstort and force yourself on others then they are going to eventualy fight back, and fight back the only way they can - using themselfs as weapons. desperation is very dangerous.

i will admit that there are alot of simple insane exstemests out there that have a majorly skewed view of the world, but if you break everything down and think about it, we realy have ourselves to blaim for creating these types of people.


as for the topic here, i have no idea what the administration is smoking, it seams realy weird that they would wana push this like they are. of course its going to get stuck in the mud, cause thats what goverment does.

[Chrono]

Re: Bush going to veto our security...

Hey Terr, where are the first two pictures located? I know the second is a indoor skiing complex, I saw it on the Modern Marvels I believe

[The Toecutter]

Re: Bush going to veto our security...

so whats your solution to that, stop buying oil from the middle east?

That's the easiest way to go about it without compromising the rights and money of Americans, although the politicians(both in the ME and America) and business interests aren't so willing.

its unfortunate that companies and goverments funnel money into terroistic orginizations, but they have something we want and as long as we need that then we may have to live with them doing just that.

Things don't have to be this way. We have the technology not to need their oil, but the power elite won't let us have access to it. Barring access to that technology and efficiency improvements, Americans would have to live like second or third worlders, and that ain't gonna' happen...

Oil dependency is a huge burden that needs to be lifted, and can be without the common person having to sacrifice, but the business interests and politicians would make less money in the process than today.

A conflict of interest, between 99% of us cogs and the other 1% that runs the system...

or bush could bomb them, which would make the us worse then any terroist group, destroying a countery for their own gain - ohh wait they did that in iraq didnt they?

Quite technically, we are a terrorist nation. That's not to say that Arabs or Americans are terrorists, but it is their governments that are, whether by committing blatant human rights abuses, or defying the international laws they agreed to adhere to. The people are merely used and caught in the middle of the conflict, ready to pay up at a moment's notice for the damage done.

The Bush regime and the various nobles in these nations are quite buddy buddy. I doubt he'd bomb any of these countries unless the common people of these countries succeeded in overthrowing the oppressive nobles(more than likely resulting in cutting off the oil). Freedom is on the march!

terrorists exist not becuase they want to cause havoc, but becuase of forign polocies that hinder them.

Actually, it is both. However, these terrorists would not exist anywhere near the number they are today if it weren't for our foreign policy. Many of these participants are normal, good people like you and I but who are also angered at seeing their resources squandered by the wealthy elite from both their countries and ours. Add in a little religious identity with some bits of fundamentalism, and you get an organization so many people can identify with and belong to, regardless of whether or not they follow the party line of said organization.

There are even well educated Doctors that have joined Al Qaeda, seeking revenge after American bombing campaings killed their families. Al Qaeda may be a sinister organisation, but a number of the people within it are members of it merely to find vengence or closure...

And giving the United Arab Emirates access to this port greatly increases the risk of these people waging another attack. Many of them have become so angered that they believe all Americans are Nazis who harmed them, even though it is the fault of our government. Would we have leaders that were serious about human rights and addressing the endless wars encouraged in these countries, addressing oil industry and monarchy oppression, and didn't seek to conquer, Al Qaeda wouldn't have near the membership it does and normal everyday people from these countries wouldn't be tempted to join this organization of extremist ideals...

But instead, we have a history of manipulating the middle east, installing dictators in exchange for access to resources and dollar hedgemony, and curtailing popular uprisings against oppressive regimes. Shah of Iran incident ring any bells?


Personally, I think those terrorists who hate America would do ALL of us a favor if they didn't wrongly attack innocent people, and instead went straight for our leaders and needed it there. But as the old saying goes, if you're willing to blow yourself up to kill innocent people in order to send a message that contains overtones of religoius idealism, you're probably too stupid and/or impatient to understand what is really going on in your own country and abroad. This is unfortunate, as both our poor soldiers in Iraq and those zealots who suicide bomb innocent people often have good intentions... Recognizing the causes of the problems are key to addressing them.

if you use your power to exstort and force yourself on others then they are going to eventualy fight back, and fight back the only way they can - using themselfs as weapons. desperation is very dangerous.

It wouldn't surprise me if 20 years from now Americans became very similar in ideals and tactics... Take away the T.V., the automobile, the computer gadgets, the minimalls, and all illusions will be gone. The public in turn would be very angry, depending on how they respond it could be either a good thing(revolt with intent for a free republic and full restoration of constitutional rights), or a bad thing(scapegoating a specific ethnic or political group, a new populist party that adheres to fascist ideals, Nazi Germany style). If the future bears sudden and maybe even violent change, most of us will be caught in the middle angry, and wanting to do something about the problem in that case. If it is the more pessimistic scenario, many of us will fall prey to similar ideals that the Nazis had, looking for a quick answer to our problems.

i will admit that there are alot of simple insane exstemests out there that have a majorly skewed view of the world, but if you break everything down and think about it, we realy have ourselves to blaim for creating these types of people.

Indeed. I was simply hoping you didn't take what I said the wrong way, but I couldn't tell based upon your writing. I agree with the points you've made and do not think Arabs are terrorists or extremists. It's their leaders, who are as flawed as our own leaders. It is the leaders that deserve to be taken out, but these leaders would rather have their people suffer the negative consequences of the selfish actions they made, while they meanwhile reap the rewards.



Make no mistake. The oil americans are getting from the ME is not free and has a very dear price, whether in the form of a $600 billion annual trade deficent, rapidly rising national debt, environmental degredation, or loss of civil liberties. The solutions to this oil dependency are meanwhile politically supressed regardless of will among the public, as it is through the oil use that the leaders of both America, the first world, and the Arab nations are making their money, even though it is the people that collectively pay for it...


***edit, forgot to answer Chrono's question

Hey Terr, where are the first two pictures located? I know the second is a indoor skiing complex, I saw it on the Modern Marvels I believe

Dubai, United Arab Emirates

All of these constructs are recent and mostly funded by oil sales and all the blood, suffering, terrorism, and war these sales entail...