Thank you, PA

[Shard]

Tycho's post today (Feb 17th) at www.penny-arcade.com hit the nail squarely on the ****ing head as it comes to my feelings towards JRPGs. I play rpgs primarily for the story. I know some people really get into squeezing every last ounce of fun from the game mechanics, and that's cool, just not my bag. Generally if a JRPG's story attains the rank of 'forgettable', it's better than most. I know I'm not the target demographic for game developers, but I have to wonder if there's not a large segment of aging gamers that stay away from (or have lukewarm interest in) the genre because they're under-served. I find I enjoy simple stories like the ones in Kingdom Hearts and DQ8 because I don't have to swallow the karaoke-quality philosophy that's become commonplace in some franchises.

[highwind]

Re: Thank you, PA

What is a JRPG?

[Manji]

Re: Thank you, PA

JRPG = japanese RPG. they have a distinct flavor. it's true.

[Kefka Jr.]

Re: Thank you, PA

A bland flavor, really. Honestly, developers don't seem to realize that people are more interested in details and character than "the mission at hand". Maybe I could have put up with that ten years ago but, damn it, things are changing. That's why I think Wild Arms: Alter Code F doesn't hold up. We've seen character struggles develop since FFVII, since MGS, and so on, but in Alter Code F, Rudy and friends just seem like "people who have to save the world". Cecilia's probably the most interesting character because she actually recognizes this and sometimes wishes she doesn't have to be a hero, but it's not elaborated on very much.

It's not limited to just Japan, though. The first half of Indigo Prophecy is damn enthralling, because it's all about the charcters trying to find out what the hell is going on, but come the second half, the game's just like "FORGET ALL THAT INTERESTING STUFF, IT'S TIME TO SAVE THE WORLD!!" **** SAVING WORLD! I've already done it a THOUSAND TIMES!

Of course, these ARE still videogames. If Grandia III is still fun despite the cliches, I might get it some time.

I'm tempted to move this to the videogame forum.

[Shard]

Re: Thank you, PA

I didn't buy Grandia II but I played my friend's copy and had more fun than I expected to. I probably won't pick up III, because it's being out-competed...if it were summer, it'd have a much better chance at my buck.

I won't argue that character development is lacking and that isn't specific to Japanese offerings. The half-ass regurgitation of philosophy and unwillingness to move beyond set stereotypes is much more prevalent from them though. These themes aren't exclusive to videogames, the cross-pollination from anime and manga is pretty obvious.

I wasn't sure if this would stay about videogames or expand to include the obvious parallels, but feel free to move it where you like.

[Magus]

Re: Thank you, PA

The stories in most of the JRPGs we get are ****ing garbage. Is this a controversial statement? Only the most dominated nihongophile recoils, straining on his Eastern leash. These "stories" are challenges in an of themselves: like a hulking boss creature, they are trials against which the human mind must strive. Exhausting existential retreads that course through the meat of the brain like poison.

There is a defense, however. Like the protagonist in Pi, I've long since drilled out some portion of that organ - the part that stays up all night in coffee shops talking about whether or not God wears white. That cortex is outta there. Or it's still there, but there's a cavern bored through it so that the things teenagers think are deep fall right out.

It seems that Gabe, like most RPG fans, have accepted (embraced?) the overall shittiness of RPG narratives common these days as something inevitable.

Yes, thank god for someone with a name noticing this and talking about, but for cripe's sake let's not be complacent about it.

Why is this in the free forum? I'm probably gonna feel the need to drop names like Xenosaga and Final Fantasy eventually.

[RPGD]

Re: Thank you, PA

Personally, I've always payed more attention to characters and/or gameplay than the story. If anything satisfies either criteria, boom, I'm there.

That's likely why all of my favorite games, RPG or not, have simple or non-existant narratives, but memorable characters/entertaining gameplay. Monster Rancher, Mario, Pokemon, MegaMan Classic, Armored Core (arguably), Harvest Moon, etc. all pretty much fall into this bracket. They may have simple stories, but at least they aren't long crap/convoluted stories with nothing else to hold it together.

[Big Rick Cook]

Re: Thank you, PA

Grandia II is a stand-out game in terms of character development. The story is cliche as hell and obvious to absurdity, but what matters is that it is told so well that you don't even care how many times you've heard the "save the world" story. The characters' interactions with each other make the entire game worth every penny.

That said, I never cared much about the story in RPGs. Like others in this topic, so long as the game does at least something right, be it gameplay, story, characters, or in some cases, even music, I will enjoy it. Grandia II just happened to blend stellar gameplay with superb characters, which is a great combination for a video game. It also has an extremely satisfying ending.

[ErikaFuzzbottom]

Re: Thank you, PA

I don't care how cliche a story is. If it's told well, I like it.

[Gustaff 13]

Re: Thank you, PA

That's why I think Wild Arms: Alter Code F doesn't hold up. We've seen character struggles develop since FFVII, since MGS, and so on, but in Alter Code F, Rudy and friends just seem like "people who have to save the world". Cecilia's probably the most interesting character because she actually recognizes this and sometimes wishes she doesn't have to be a hero, but it's not elaborated on very much.

Rudy was raised a do-gooder and Jack is initially in it for revenge.

The rest is just sappy, cliché, heart-warming, escapist fairy tale. And that is why I lubs it. That's what I bought it for.

[John Mora]

Re: Thank you, PA

I have come to the point where I will almost refuse to play an RPG that has a teenage boy adventurer setting out to save the world with a colorful cast of one-dimensional characters. I GUESS THAT MEANS RPGS WILL SOON BE DEAD TO ME

[Magus]

Re: Thank you, PA

Yay! Join my club. =)

[Riotsword]

Re: Thank you, PA

When was the last time we had a hero that didn't care about saving the world?

I guess Cloud came close in FF7, he just wanted Sephiroth dead. Until Seph kills Aeris, and Cloud finds out what she was doing, and he was all like, "Let's save the world, 'cause that's what Aeris was doing!"

I want to see an RPG with a character who just wants a resolution to his/her own problem, and none of this "saving the world" crap.

I guess the RPG I'm working on is sort of like that, the protagonist just wants to wake up(he's in a coma-induced dream), and he'll do anything to acheive that, even murder.

[Big Rick Cook]

Re: Thank you, PA

So... he'll commit murder... in his dream. To wake up. Where he won't have really killed anybody.

Good luck with that.

[ErikaFuzzbottom]

Re: Thank you, PA

I'm not sure Tidus was in the quest to save the world. As far as I remember he was in it for Yuna and to get at his father.