Tookie

[Kire]

"Tookie" Williams, one of the original members of the Crips, was put to death this morning. He was found guilty in a crime he says he was innocent of (but what criminal doesn't say that). I could see how the LAPD could pin the crime on him, just from what I've witnessed in my study of how the Chicago police operated and pinned the crime on the innocent. Even if he was guilty (and if not of that, probably something else since he was in a gang), he went on to be nominated for a nobel piece prize for his children's books that kept kids out of gangs.

I guess this is technically a capital punishment thread, but I was just wondering what you guys felt about the situation. The guy was obviously more valuable to society alive then dead, but the victims' families of the crime he was convicted of demanded his death...and I can't say I wouldn't feel the same if it had happened to me.

[DK]

Re: Tookie

I saw pictures of his alledged vitcims on some conservative website, nasty stuff

[Manyak]

Re: Tookie

Well, this is the LAPD.

I could see this being pinned on him, but I can also see him doing it.

I'm against the death penalty though, I think they should just put him in federal "pounded-in-the-ass" prison.

*EDIT*

That is of course, if he actually did it.

[hitogoroshi]

Re: Tookie

The death row waiting line is what brings **** like this. I am for the death penalty, but not the way it's done now. The death penalty should have a 10 year delay, during which they stay in prison. Then, the case is re-reviewed, giving them the chance to get a lighter sentance if they've proved they have sufficently repented.

[Shard]

Re: Tookie

If it were just about Williams and his victims (I'm going on the assumption that he was in fact guilty). I wouldn't have a problem with his execution. Generally I consider life without possibility of parole a harsher sentence than a quick and clean death...although you could argue 30 years in prison with death hanging over your head is on par with it.

In this particular case, I think the good he was doing from behind bars, outweighed the call for his death. Any time you have an opportunity to reach out to the impoverished, the disenfranchised, and marginalized parts of the community (in this case the poor African-American community) you should take that chance. The chance to show mercy to a community that regards itself as the continuous victim of society comes up very rarely. Further, Williams was someone who could effectively reach the people who most needed to hear his message.

I guess the short version would be...Williams deserved to die, but there are alternatives that'd serve as well. The AA community deserved his life. The message that no one is beyond redemption, that hope should never be given up, and that your good deeds do count for something can't be said enough.

[Alex]

Re: Tookie

Nobody really deserves to die.

[IRC]

Re: Tookie

I'll admit that the most I know about this guy is from the Jamie Foxx movie. I figure that if he wasn't guilty of the murder he was convicted of he was most likely guilty of some other murder, however I think that some of the stuff that he'd done in prison as far as trying to keep kids out of drugs could have warrented reducing his sentence to life in prison so he could keep his work. Since I've never delt with gangs I can say that either one would have been fine with me.

[Tsunami]

Re: Tookie

If he was doing as much good as everyone says he was, then I don't see the point in killing him now, then again, I am nt connected to the situation.

[Magus]

Re: Tookie

Nobody really deserves to die.

I dunno about that.

[Obsidian]

Re: Tookie

There are many people that deserve to die. None of wich (that I can think of) Have gotten the death "penalty".

[Valkysas]

Re: Tookie

he deserved it worse.

the gang he started has been responsible for corrupting and killing young people for years, and will continue to do so decades after his death.

[Obsidian]

Re: Tookie

True, just because he made some children's book and then won the Nobel Prize, it changes nothing in my opinion.

[hitogoroshi]

Re: Tookie

I don't think he's won it yet.

[Shard]

Re: Tookie

The gang he co-founded will do an immeasurable amount of harm over the course of its existence, but if it had not been the crips, another gang would have filled the same niche. You can't go and put every action the gang takes and pile it on top of one man. The gang is a symptom, the poverty and lack of social integration are the real source of the problem.

I'm not saying anything Williams had done has redeemed him. I don't know if there's anything he could do that would balance the harm he did with his own hand, but the community he was reaching out to was much more important than him or his individual fate. I believe the needs of the many outweighed the needs of the few in this case. I don't see how anyone, even the families of the victims, profitted from his death.

How many had he reached with his efforts? How many more could he have reached? How do you measure the lives that were guided onto a better path? The violence and misery he had the chance to stave off is exponential.

[Obsidian]

Re: Tookie

Good point. He could deffinitly have been put to better use.