Isolated loner shoots Congresswoman in Arizona

[Perversion]

This.


Caught a bit of this on some morning news program while going out for a cigarette. Decided to post here. It's sad and ironic that apparently, a girl born on 9-11-01 was one of the victims.

[marcus]

Re: Isolated loner shoots Congresswoman in Arizona

One of the victims was a judge who was heavily criticized for allowing a lawsuit against some redneck rancher who held a couple of illegals at gunpoint and barraged them with racist slurs. Although Arizona law allows you to defend yourself against intruders, there's nothing that says you can mentally abuse unarmed people trespassing on your unmarked land.

Investigators are trying to figure out if this was a political hit or if the dude was just bat**** insane and wanted attention. He had youtube videos and **** of him rambling on and on with no clear point, he was an antisocial pothead, craved attention, did poorly in school, and basically showed all signs of being a mentally unstable person.

Still, this will turn into another political debate on both sides. A lot of fingers are pointed at Palin among other political extremists for driving up ire towards this woman including a former website Palin put up that had a bullseye over Gifford's head and Jesse Kelly, the representative Giffords beat, posted himself in olive garb with an M16 and a message "Get on Target for Victory in November. Help remove Gabrielle Giffords from office. Shoot a fully automatic M16 with Jesse Kelly." The cynical and disgusting way politicians are sniping at each other is really having a negative effect on people's perceptions. The media already turns nobodies into celebrities; it's amazing how much power someone has when they're over a radio speaker or television. TV can instantly turn rational people into mindless drones going "yep, uh-huh please do my thinking for me yeah".

If this was a politically fueled hit (and an accomplice is being looked for), then I want every news station to post on their ticker "SARAH PALIN'S RHETORIC KILLS 9-YEAR OLD GIRL."

[Hrafn]

Re: Isolated loner shoots Congresswoman in Arizona

One of the victims was a judge who was heavily criticized for allowing a lawsuit against some redneck rancher who held a couple of illegals at gunpoint and barraged them with racist slurs. Although Arizona law allows you to defend yourself against intruders, there's nothing that says you can mentally abuse unarmed people trespassing on your unmarked land.

Investigators are trying to figure out if this was a political hit or if the dude was just bat**** insane and wanted attention. He had youtube videos and **** of him rambling on and on with no clear point, he was an antisocial pothead, craved attention, did poorly in school, and basically showed all signs of being a mentally unstable person.

Still, this will turn into another political debate on both sides. A lot of fingers are pointed at Palin among other political extremists for driving up ire towards this woman including a former website Palin put up that had a bullseye over Gifford's head and Jesse Kelly, the representative Giffords beat, posted himself in olive garb with an M16 and a message "Get on Target for Victory in November. Help remove Gabrielle Giffords from office. Shoot a fully automatic M16 with Jesse Kelly." The cynical and disgusting way politicians are sniping at each other is really having a negative effect on people's perceptions. The media already turns nobodies into celebrities; it's amazing how much power someone has when they're over a radio speaker or television. TV can instantly turn rational people into mindless drones going "yep, uh-huh please do my thinking for me yeah".

If this was a politically fueled hit (and an accomplice is being looked for), then I want every news station to post on their ticker "SARAH PALIN'S RHETORIC KILLS 9-YEAR OLD GIRL."

Just stop. Palin's no more liable for this than Robert De Niro is for Hinckley trying to kill Reagan. Besides, politics 101: if you don't like what someone stands for, the last thing you want to do is kill them. Virtually no living public figure is half as valuable to their cause as a martyr. This was not the act of sane or rational people, this was a sick and deranged mind (or perhaps a couple, he might have had someone else helping him out) who lacked the ability to understand that this wasn't going to accomplish anything.

[marcus]

Re: Isolated loner shoots Congresswoman in Arizona

Just stop. Palin's no more liable for this than Robert De Niro is for Hinckley trying to kill Reagan. Besides, politics 101: if you don't like what someone stands for, the last thing you want to do is kill them. Virtually no living public figure is half as valuable to their cause as a martyr. This was not the act of sane or rational people, this was a sick and deranged mind (or perhaps a couple, he might have had someone else helping him out) who lacked the ability to understand that this wasn't going to accomplish anything.

No, this case should draw attention to the way politicians are treating each other in the media. We can spin garbage into gold and convince each other that **** smells like roses just by repeating it over and over again. It takes a crisis to realize that things are messed up and sure enough things are messed up.

Sick people don't do things on a whim. Taxi Driver wasn't directly responsible for the assassination attempt nor did Taxi Driver make Hinkley insane, but there's no denying it was a catalyst that fueled his ideas. A crazy person just doesn't act randomly there has to be something that drives them to the edge even if it's as insignificant as a book/poem/game/movie/song. They're looking for an accomplice so who knows, he could have convinced the gunman to action.

[Hrafn]

Re: Isolated loner shoots Congresswoman in Arizona

No, this case should draw attention to the way politicians are treating each other in the media. We can spin garbage into gold and convince each other that **** smells like roses just by repeating it over and over again. It takes a crisis to realize that things are messed up and sure enough things are messed up.

Sick people don't do things on a whim. Taxi Driver wasn't directly responsible for the assassination attempt nor did Taxi Driver make Hinkley insane, but there's no denying it was a catalyst that fueled his ideas. A crazy person just doesn't act randomly there has to be something that drives them to the edge even if it's as insignificant as a book/poem/game/movie/song. They're looking for an accomplice so who knows, he could have convinced the gunman to action.

That's my point. You never know what is going to be the spark that sets that loony fire aflame. So attempting to stop anything that might inspire such acts is simply not possible. If it wasn't this, it would have been something else. He wasn't going to not go on a rampage just because Palin didn't use a crosshair .gif, it simply would have been some other random thing that inspired him. Perhaps he would have had a different target. But the end result would be the same. You think if Hinckley had gone to see Jaws instead, he would have been a successful fisherman instead of a would-be killer?

[marcus]

Re: Isolated loner shoots Congresswoman in Arizona

That's my point. You never know what is going to be the spark that sets that loony fire aflame. So attempting to stop anything that might inspire such acts is simply not possible. If it wasn't this, it would have been something else. He wasn't going to not go on a rampage just because Palin didn't use a crosshair .gif, it simply would have been some other random thing that inspired him. Perhaps he would have had a different target. But the end result would be the same. You think if Hinckley had gone to see Jaws instead, he would have been a successful fisherman instead of a would-be killer?

Maybe? Who knows. There's no point in engaging in useless hypothetical situations but what we do now is that the political scene in America is largely negative. You can't deny this unless you're blind or for it. Does any sane human being think putting a crosshair over someone's head accomplishes anything positive? What about telling a bunch of bigots to fire their guns in the air like spaghetti western cowboys?

There's a clear line between pointing out your opponent's flaws and drumming up fear and hatred. "My opponent is an enemy of the state and he hates you and wants mexicans to eat your children *aims crosshair over head*" I would have more respect for these people if they came out and said "Look, you guys are getting a little crazy. Voting for me is one thing but sending death threats? Cut that **** out." Instead these people revel in the controversy and do nothing to try and stop it because "my... my seat is at stake!"

[Hrafn]

Re: Isolated loner shoots Congresswoman in Arizona

It's unfortunate that negativity is such an element of America's political landscape. But it's not going to go away unless there is a true bipartisan effort to eliminate it (and I don't mean Washington's definition of 'bipartisan', which is simply 'support what my party wants to do or we'll call you out on it', but actual cooperation between Republicans and Democrats). And that isn't likely. The American public speaks through its votes, and what it usually says is that when one candidate tries to take the high road, they get slapped down for it. Negtativity persists because negativity works.

And the correct answer was not maybe. It was no. Thanks for playing.

[DarkwingChuck]

Re: Isolated loner shoots Congresswoman in Arizona

Or to get rid of the partisan division in our politics altogether, but that's also never going to happen.

[Hrafn]

Re: Isolated loner shoots Congresswoman in Arizona

If you mean breaking the two party system, I'm all for it (but while it will happen eventually, it could begin in two years...or twenty. Or longer). If you mean replacing it with a single unified party, out of the question. A one-party system would be utterly catastrophic.

[IamPinhead]

Re: Isolated loner shoots Congresswoman in Arizona

Take an insane man. Give him a gun. Tell him that Perversion is trying to take away his freedoms. Insane man finds Perversion. Insane man shoots Perversion.
Take the same insane man. Give him a gun. Tell him that simple man is trying to take away his freedoms. Insane man finds simple man. Insane man shoots simple man.
What do these two situations have in common?
a) Perversion
b) simple man
c) unstable person with a gun
The correct answer is 'c'. If it were because of Palin's intolerant banter, then anybody who heard it would have done the same thing. It was because the guy is clearly unstable and not in the best mental health. Politicians nowadays are expected to insult their opponent as often as they can, and they've been doing it ever since there were politicians. Of course, Palin could have helped to not put a bullseye over the lady's face, but that's just as much free speech as is Toecutter's half-page responses with an index and eighteen sources. He's just more articulate.

[Czechs Mex]

Re: Isolated loner shoots Congresswoman in Arizona

A lot of fingers are pointed at Palin among other political extremists[/url] for driving up ire towards this woman including a former website Palin put up that had a bullseye over Gifford's head

Does any sane human being think putting a crosshair over someone's head accomplishes anything positive?

"My opponent is an enemy of the state and he hates you and wants mexicans to eat your children *aims crosshair over head*"

Of course, Palin could have helped to not put a bullseye over the lady's face

Not to defend Palin's ad, but I think you guys are confusing Gifford's head with the state of Arizona.

[Jehuty]

Re: Isolated loner shoots Congresswoman in Arizona

Looking at American politics from outside the country; You already do have one party.

An American democrat would be considered conservative in most other countries.

[Hrafn]

Re: Isolated loner shoots Congresswoman in Arizona

Trust me, just because there may not be as big a gap between the ideologies of our two parties as there are in other countries does not make it the same as having a single party.

[Valkysas]

Re: Isolated loner shoots Congresswoman in Arizona

Just on the Palin thing, she did immediately pull the map graphic, and a tweet that said "don't retreat, RELOAD" before the shooter's identity was known, so she was likely worried she inadvertantly caused it.

[Jehuty]

Re: Isolated loner shoots Congresswoman in Arizona

Trust me, just because there may not be as big a gap between the ideologies of our two parties as there are in other countries does not make it the same as having a single party.

Yeah, you get to choose from:

extremist corporate shills with blatant religous overtones, or apoligist corporate shills too cowardly to show its religous overtones.

That is hyperbole of course, I'm aware of a gradient of sorts.