Wikileaks?

[The Toecutter]

How many here have been following the relevant news surrounding this organization for the last 4 years?

One of the most intrigueing events surrounding them is the leak of more than 250,000 classified documents to Julian Assange, the creator of Wikileaks, by Brad Manning. Included in these documents is proof of Hillary Clinton spying on UN Diplomats(including the collection of biometric information and DNA) and proof that the Obama administration acted to prevent the prosecution of the Bush administration for war crimes. Assange claims that wikileaks currently has documents on one of the major banks in the U.S. that prove illegal activity on part of this bank; he hasn't stated which bank, but it is rumored that it is Bank of America.

Assange is currently in a British jail on a charge of rape that appears to be fraudulent; Sweden wants him extradited for trial there, even though the first of the alledged rape victims is denying the Swedish government's allegations. Manning is in prison; he will be tried for treason. The U.S. also wants possession of Assange. Assange is not a U.S. citizen.

On the website wikileaks.ch, there is an insurance file that contains the 250,000 wikileaks documents. A key to decode them in a format where they can be read may be released. You can get more information just by searching for it...

[Alzar]

Re: Wikileaks?

i thought the key to the insurance file would be release if something happens to julian assanage, like he gets killed or mysteriously disappears or something

[Hrafn]

Re: Wikileaks?

Not a big fan of the site. They aren't interested in the truth, they're interested in shaping the truth to serve their purpose. That edited version of the video they released a while back told that story all too well. Just more liberal Europeans with axes to grind against the U.S, how cliche.

[Kefka Jr.]

Re: Wikileaks?

So this guy published the United States' diary in the school newspaper

[orius]

Re: Wikileaks?

Not a big fan of the site. They aren't interested in the truth, they're interested in shaping the truth to serve their purpose. That edited version of the video they released a while back told that story all too well. Just more liberal Europeans with axes to grind against the U.S, how cliche.

I generally agree, though Assmunch is Australian, not European. He's got the same irritating attitude though.

This site and its supporters come off as a modern-day internet equivalent of the bomb-throwing radical anarchist. Little of what he's released is particularly damning or reveals anything truely sinister about the US, and there's good reason for some of it to be classified.

For example, the rather candid assessments of foreign leaders and diplomats. It's important for members of the State Department to know what these people are like because they need to know what these people are like to make deals and agreements with them, but revealing it to everyone does most of us little good, and creates diplomatic problems. Most of us like to build our own little personas, but we don't like it when these facades are publicly torn down. That's the same thing here; by revealing these files, he's hurt American diplomacy for at least the next several months by offending foreign leaders and diplomats. It'll blow over eventually, but there's no good reason for it that I can see, rather just a rabidly anti-American agenda by a leftist foreigner. He may think it's good, but I stridently disagree, and I don't appreciate him weaking my country diplomatically, especially after all the effort that's been put into repairing damage that was done during the Bush administration.

Or how about the revelation that the Saudis wanted us to attack Iran? Revealing that is just brilliant. The Middle East isn't exactly all that stable, so it's great to release information that will increase tensions between the Arabs who are already paranoid about Iran's influence over Hezbollah and Hamas, and Iran which has its own regional ambitions. Of course that doesn't matter to Assange and his supporters, to them it's probably all about oil. What a bunch of narrow-minded idiots. Keeping this classified is obvious, since we already have plenty of problems to deal with in the Middle East. We don't need him stirring up another.

That's what most of these revelations seem to be. Not secrets for the sake of secrets, or to keep some sinister imperalist American plot in the dark, but because revealing these things could stir up trouble in various spots around the world.

Then there's this supposed bombshell about BoA or whatever financial institution that's he's been threatening to release. This is also infuriating because of the potential results. The American economy is just starting to recover from a bad recession, so go ahead and release some information that's likely to cause investor confidence to drop more, stock prices to fall and cause another economic mess. The fact that it will likely result in more unemployment as well doesn't seem to bother Assmunch or his supporters either. Either they're pinko idiots who think destroying capitalism will result in true economic equility or just anti-American stooges who just don't give a rat's ass about the American working class. No matter what is or may be broken about America's economy right now I don't believe is likely to be fixed by this but rather make things worse. Possibly much worse.

His supporters get little sympathy from me either. Look at all the cyber attacks they've been making. How much of this is hurting the mythical evil tyrannical imperialst America they so fervently believe exists? And how much of it is shafting ordinary people not just in the US, but really around the world, given the global scope of the internet?

I got the impression that he surrendered to British authorities to hide safely in jail because he's supposedly getting a significant number of death threats. Maybe that's not true because he posted bail, but he may still think that this will keep him relatively safe from attempts on his life. In any case, Sweden is not a very oppresive nation, so I have little problem with seeing him go to court to face the charges that have been brought against him. I'd like to see him procecuted because he seems like the type who's too pretty for jail.

The real problem is the potential dangers that releasing this or any other information of this type could do. He and all the other far leftists who sympathize with him may think it's a good thing if America gets so weak politically and economically that it collapses, but I sure as hell don't. America is not a strongly leftist state by any stretch of the imagination, and I believe the most likely outcome of a collapsed American political system would be a strongly fascist state. I do not want to see that at all.

Look at how fascism emerged in the 20th century, a good deal of it accompanied the global economic problems of the Depression. Without a strong America trying to maintain a peaceful status quo among the nations of the world, I think global democracy would be greatly threatened and we'd see the rise of a number of authoritarian states from strongly nationalist and fascist ones to communist states. The very worst case scenario would be World War III, because such states are likely to be very aggressive.

There's a decent chance that such an American state might endorse Christian fundamentalism given that it is a significant political minority, and being strongly anti-religious such a state would be a significant threat to me. Yeah, they'd go after atheists and secularists with a vengence for sure, since they see us as all evil diabolical agents. They'd go after Muslims as well. Look at some of the anti-Muslim attitudes in the country now. Just imagine what it would be like if the fundamentalists got political power in a situation where the Constitution (particularly the First Amendment) was no longer being upheld. You think we're violating human rights in Iraq and Afghanistan? I assure you it would be far worse if this happened. We'd be looking at a 21st century Crusade. And that would make any WWIII that broke out even worse, because many of these religious extremists aren't at all scared by nukes. They think it's all part of some prophecised Last Battle against the forces of Evil, and that the world is supposed to be destroyed. To them, it's alright because god will just wave his magic fingers when it's all over remake the world and give the true believers eternal life in this new world. Needless to say, I do not believe that at all.

So no, I am definitely not pleased with Assange, WikiLeaks, and this whole damn mess.

[peachy]

Re: Wikileaks?

i like that russia wants assange to get the nobel peace prize- its like the last dying gasps of the old world- trying to exert the last remnants of political power-- goddam europe man nobody needs them-- boo america- boo america- america sucks-- but when america starts to tumble down where do you think our military might goes-- it sweeps across the globe- and we will burn down every goddam thing left on this planet-- people dont realize we cant fall anymore-- empires dont crumble like they used to-- were not fighting for our names in the history books but now for the continuation of the goddam human race-- we need to keep america running- keep shoveling coal in her face- we need to get her hot and its going to burn but one day we can hope that this human race stays and for the better tomorrow.

we cannot live with pessimism anymore-- we cannot live with julian assange-- we can only look forward--

[Alex]

Re: Wikileaks?

Don't mind me.

[Vanilla Iced Tea]

Re: Wikileaks?

One guy = The Pavilion

Way to keep your head on there.

[John Mora]

Re: Wikileaks?

Thanks for calling everyone who visits the forum scum and reacting like a huge baby just because a few people didn't share your viewpoint on a political matter!

[Sejon]

Re: Wikileaks?

Just more liberal Europeans with axes to grind against the U.S, how cliche.

I generally agree, though Assmunch is Australian, not European. He's got the same irritating attitude though.

]goddam europe man nobody needs them

I like all this random Europe-hatred spewing forth because of something done by an Australian.

British press is rife with Wikileaks condemnation. And that's hardly surprising.

Also, Wikileaks' avid supporters are across the globe, including in the US of A. This is hardly an exclusively European phenomenon.

I suppose I'm mostly of the "leftist" strain myself, but I don't support what Wikileaks is doing. Sure, exposing US ambassadorial opinions of leaders like Berlusconi and Sarkozy had some entertainment value (despite the fact that they revealed nothing that everyone didn't already know), and hardly anything's going to come of that in the end aside from a bit of grumbling, but releasing names of Afghani informants helping the Americans at the risk of endangering lives? Way to go there. I'm all for exposing truth and all that, but not when individual, national, and international security is at stake. They could have at least practised far more discernment than this destructive "all must be revealed" approach. At the end of the day, I care more about life than about truth.

However, contrastively, I do support the overall message it's conveying; i.e. that political opacity isn't going to operate like it used to in this digital age of global instantaneous communication (better be mindful to take note, Russia et al). The problem is that I can't really say that their intentions appear to be that noble.

[Kefka Jr.]

Re: Wikileaks?

So this guy published the United States' diary on his Xanga

But srsly, Alex, what's your take on this? All I have to go on right now for clear explanations are other people's spins, or else read an article where the word "documents" is flung around like an indefinite article.

[Valkysas]

Re: Wikileaks?

The entirety of the US Government has needed a nice kick in the ass for a while. The US citizens aren't organized or dedicated enough to give it to them, so an australian had to do it.

Bravo, America.

[Hrafn]

Re: Wikileaks?

The entirety of the US Government has needed a nice kick in the ass for a while. The US citizens aren't organized or dedicated enough to give it to them, so an australian had to do it.

Bravo, America.

And I'm sure they were the only country in the whole world that needed something like that, too. If Wikileaks wants to impress me (and they do, of course), then they shouldn't be so focused on America. I want to see the same level of dogged determination directed at other governments as well. Until then, there's no reason not to simply write them off as hypocritical partisans with axes to grind. So basically if they were devoted to truly making government transparent...well, I still wouldn't like 'em much, because that's a great idea in theory, but we don't live in theory, we live in reality. But at least I could consider them well-meaning, if a bit deluded. But they are not as noble as that, despite how some might see them.

Oh, and Alex...classy. Very classy. But thanks for showing exactly what is wrong with the more rabid Wikileaks supporters.

Now here's a question: why is the people who always say they can't be bothered to talk about something invariably write large posts doing just that?

[The_Real_Crunk]

Re: Wikileaks?

Baby boomers are whats wrong with north america.

[IamPinhead]

Re: Wikileaks?

.....Well. We know how Alex really feels, now don't we?
I believe that Wikileaks' proposed purpose is a nice one: Expose the truth that American needs to hear. However, they seem to believe we need to know everything the Government does, despite the sensitivity of the information or its relevancy to domestic problems. Yeah, the government is not the greatest or most moral institution in the world, but they sure as hell know how to run their own country better than some Australian dick who can't take responsibility for what he does.
Edit: Here's a comic explanation I found.