Game as anti-art?

[Perversion]

Or does being anti-art give it some credence as being legitimate art?

With this, I'm referring to games (like those linked to below) that take video game mechanics or player expectation, and subvert them into something different.


I'm not referring to "game as art" poster children, like Shadow of the Colossus, Ico, Braid, Okami or Flower (even though the latter could almost be said to fit into this category, depending on how deeply one chooses to look at it). I'm talking about things like:

Penn and Teller's Smoke and Mirrors
Flower Sun and Rain


I guess I'm making this topic because lately (meaning, for the past 2 or so years), every time I think about making another game (be it on RPGM3 or hopefully on IG Maker once I get over the learning curve), it's usually a game along these types of lines (without getting into specifics).

Hell, the last actual game I finished was this, which might as well be the RPGM3 equivalent of the Desert Bus minigame in the Penn and Teller game mentioned above.

Can you think of any other games that might fit the above criteria? These are really not, "So bad they're good," games. These are more, "Made bad intentionally for an underlying purpose."

I suppose I'd add No More Heroes and Killer 7 to this list as well, but didn't necessarily want to make the links above top heavy with Suda 51 games.


Also, if this is the sort of direction I might possibly choose to go with my game-making, should I even bother?

[John Mora]

Re: Game as anti-art?

You're talking about postmodernism.

[Cutter De Blanc]

Re: Game as anti-art?

Enter: Action 52. A game so heinously awful that they must have made it that bad intentionally. 52 games on one cart. And they all suck. Really really bad. Two of them aren't even playable. And then they had the pretentiousness to sell it for 200 dollars. Truly a work of anti-art if there ever was one.

[Perversion]

Re: Game as anti-art?

Well, I guess I'd rather it be referred to as postmodern than meta.

[marcus]

Re: Game as anti-art?

The first example is probably Takeshi's Challenge, a game directed by Japanese filmmaker Beat Takeshi. The game's box literally warned players that it couldn't be played as a conventional game and required you to do ridiculous things to beat it. It involves a businessman collecting money by punching out hopping old ladies, beating up yakuza, screaming at pa*****o machines (seriously, you use the Famicom's microphone to yell at pa*****o machines), sing karaoke, and do other stupidly ridiculous stuff to beat it. Takeshi's said once or twice that he thought up the entire game while drunk.

And man, you really need a god damn PC because the entirety of the indie gaming scene is pretty much this.

[Perversion]

Re: Game as anti-art?

I now have a laptop, I'll have you know.

[marcus]

Re: Game as anti-art?

Welcome to the 21st century! Here's a depository for all your pretentious needs.

[orius]

Re: Game as anti-art?

I think I'll stick with low-brow gaming.

Someone grab me a beer.

*burp*

[Denmo]

Re: Game as anti-art?

I think the bigger question is: Is WoW art?

[1ce]

Re: Game as anti-art?

Should you make games like this?

I dunno. Do you like making games like this? If you enjoy it, by all means do it. Nobody ever asked for a Calculator on RPGMaker 1, but I went ahead and did it anyway, just to say I could and to prove it could be done.

[Red Dragon]

Re: Game as anti-art?

I think the bigger question is: Is WoW art?

Yes, the art of making cash.

[Jehuty]

Re: Game as anti-art?

What the hell is Anti-art?

And why the hell does it matter if games are art?

[marcus]

Re: Game as anti-art?

What the hell is Anti-art?

And why the hell does it matter if games are art?

Art that rejects the concept of art or in some circles the concepts of "high art." I'm sure you've seen the upside down toilet sculpture, the virgin Mary covered in urine, the Mona Lisa painted with menstrual blood, or jarred **** floating in its own juices. Many people reject the movement as nothing but uninspired vandalism but the argument is that ART is anything man creates with the purpose of it being art so why is it that only a canvas or sculpture is scrutinized for its "merit" while a photograph of five hundred naked people of different race and religion organized into a specific pose and pattern not art? And yes, I saw a documentary about a photographer who went around the world and organized hundreds of people in city blocks to take nude photos all at once.

Basically every medium has certain aspects we come to define it by and some people deconstruct it or turn it on its head.

[John Mora]

Re: Game as anti-art?

Stop calling it anti-art and start calling it postmodernism. Anti-art just sounds DUMB.

[Denmo]

Re: Game as anti-art?

Postmodernism sounds DUMBER though.

Honestly, as a guy who likes making art, I feel threatened in this modern day atmosphere of "yes, but is it art?" mood. It seems like the only way to make yourself known is by adding shock value.