The Godfather=next generation visuals?

[Chrono]

The resent issue of EGM has the cover story The Godfather. To my surprise, it said that the visuals displayed in the mag were from demos off of the Xbox 2 version. The graphics are very impressive but not astonishing. I really couldn't tell the difference between this and Resident Evil 4. When the PS2 was first announced, I believed that it would have cinema quality graphics and inevitably I was disappointed. Are the visuals in the next generation of consoles really going to be vastly improved or just a more polished form of what we already have? Are we seeing a gradual slowing of graphical improvements?

Case in Point: Godfather looks like
:minotaur

[Big Rick Cook]

I think the graphical improvement slowdowns are only now beginning to show up, as when the games went from 2-bit to 4-bit to 8-bit to 16-bit to 24-bit to 32-bit, the same amount of time has passed since the PSX came out to now. The difference is that as the graphics improved past PSX, they've gone from relatively realistic to very close to realistic, where it went from little dots on a screen to cutesy characters like Sonic the Hedgehog. I could be talking out my bumhole, but it seems comparable.

[Alex]

Graphics need to be "more realistic".

There's too much focus on realism, and not enough on fun or gameplay.

[Garr123]

It's an unfinished demo for an untapped console. Comparing it to games like MGS3 or RE4 which were made using their respective systems full potential (or at least as much as the developers could muster) doesn't seem fair.

[highwind]

It's an unfinished demo for an untapped console. Comparing it to games like MGS3 or RE4 which were made using their respective systems full potential (or at least as much as the developers could muster) doesn't seem fair.


Why isn't it fair? Early PS2 demos knocked the socks off the best the PS1 or N64 could handle.

[SirTMagus]

But were they REAL? Who remembers that Real Emotion engine crap with Rinoa and Squall dancing? THEY SAID THAT **** WAS PLAYABLE AND IN RENDERED 3D.

...didn't they?!

:kim

[pinkymadigan]

Well, technically the hardware surpassing software's limits has been happening for a while now. It used to be software could be designed fairly cheaply with few programmers, now teams can't get some games done in a few years, just trying to maximaze what the game can do on the system. I think content expansion will be a more viable way to go on next gen systems, as frankly, pushing the graphics any further will NOT have a significant impact for the masses. The few of you with Hi def plasma screens are already enjoying asignificant improvement in graphics over what's commonly available to the rest of us, and frankly, it just doesn't need to look much better. I think pushing the graphics further will be a large waste of money until the proper advancements in software development are made. Just my opinion though.

[John Mora]

I agree with Magus and Garr. This isn't tapping untold regions of the Xbox 2. They didn't even render it on the Xbox 2. They were just given the stats and made CGI accordingly. And yes, the PS2 demo movies were full of B.S.

[Valkysas]

the X box 2 doesnt even exist yet. they havent nailed down the exact specs yet.

so the only thing people can do is guess, and play it safe with early ports like this. they cant design a game around certain hardware, only to find that MS changed their minds later. so they pretty much aim as low as possible for early stuff like this.

[John Mora]

the X box 2 doesnt even exist yet. they havent nailed down the exact specs yet.
Tell EGM and EA that. They don't seem to know.

[Draygone]

Nope, don't remember hearing anything about the PS2's graphics like that. Then again, I was paying so little attention to the PS2's eventual release that, when its release was on the news, I was all "The PS2 is out now?". Ah, how times have changed. Now I'm looking into every system coming out.

And yeah, it doesn't seem that graphical capabilities are going up very fast. Not at first, anyway. I know that late PS1 and early PS2 games looked similar, but now even the best-looking PS1 games can't compare to what we've got now, even with the texture smoothing turned on. Though part of that is because games nowadays have a higher screen resolution compared to previous generations. Can you imagine what Resident Evil 4 would look like if it had a grainy screen?

[JLaCroix]

BigRick, and everyone else, there were NEVER 2-bit or 4-bit systems at any point in videogame history. The lowest you can go is 8-bit. Just thought you should know.

[SirTMagus]

...How many bits was Pong...?

And, dammit, I knew that PS2 bull**** wasn't just in my mind. I mean, EVERY publication from Wall Street Journal to Gamepro said the same thing about its wonderfulness.

Pfft.

[Dreamknight]

REAL EMOTION RACING S, Square's first title on PS2, and they've never recovered quaility wise! :D


Still, as far as PS2 launch games went, Kessen was a pretty beautiful game....to watch.

[John Mora]

REAL EMOTION RACING S, Square's first title on PS2, and they've never recovered quaility wise!
OMG UR OPINNION

[highwind]

If this "demo" isn't even based on actual specs of the hardware then, yeah it's unfair to criticize. But they better EXPECT people to criticize if the product they're trying to pass off as "next generation" doesn't look any better than the current generation.

[SirTMagus]

Which is why we don't even NEED the next generation at the moment.

*huggles Gamecube and XBox close*

[Draygone]

Yeah really. If the next generation of games only means higher poly counts and hair actually looking like hair (we've got realistically furred characters in this generation, but it's not very frequent), then I'm not interested. Really, the only next step it seems is in-game graphics that look like (or almost like) FMVs.

[SirTMagus]

I read the EGM article earlier this evening.

I hope the game's good.

[Dreamknight]

How about the upcoming Citizen Kane game?

I'm psyched about that one.

[SirTMagus]

The one I'm really looking forward to is Tokimeki Annie Hall.

[John Mora]

Yeah. Right. Whatever.

[SirTMagus]

http://www.gonemovies.com/WWW/Raketnet/Drama/AnnieKreeft.jpg

TACTICAL LOBSTER-PHOTO ACTION.

[John Mora]

Honeyed psychotherapy.

[SirTMagus]

See? The possibilities are endless.

**** the Godfather game!

[John Mora]

Rather, **** Woody Allen.

:mora

[SirTMagus]

Jewhater.

:racism

[Dreamknight]

I don't even see why there would be any excitment at all for a game based on a 30 year old movie...

[SirTMagus]

What about a 70 year old world war?

[John Mora]

Or a 40 year old one?

But then again, they did augment it with floating ghosts and flying pyromaniac cosmonauts.

[SalsaShark]

I still cant believe the next gen consoles are coming up so soon. I just recently aquired an xbox, so I now have all the three major consoles, and I just got a ds, and psp is coming out next month! and then coming up pretty soon theres going to be 3 new consoles? I have not enough time and not nearly enough money for all this... I need to get rich.

[John Mora]

What do you mean so soon? It's been four years, almost five.

[Kefka Jr.]

But this generation was so thick and hearty. I'm STUFFED. I'm not freaking ready for the next course yet.

The fact that I used metaphor makes me right.

[Draygone]

I don't know, it seems like the PS1/N64 era lasted longer. (Moreso the former than the latter.) And this certainly wasn't the SNES/Genesis era. Okay, that didn't last very long aside from Genesis getting a 2-year start (I think). It could either be how it was so good. Or it could be that I didn't get an SNES until after I got an N64.

[SirTMagus]

Kefka is right. And therefore, so am I.

Shut up, f00s.

[Loki]

I hate when a new gen comes along. It always seems to happen when the latest generation is getting good. So instead of getting games made by people who have had 4 or 5 years to learn what can be done and push it to it's artistic limits, we get a bunch of crappy launch games.

Sorry, I don't know how to make that a metaphor.

[SirTMagus]

When King George just finished putting the finishing touches on his chickens some NEW king comes along with his crappy livestock.

[John Mora]

But then you hear about people like Kojima who "yearn" for new consoles. I mean, c'mon. Drama queen.

[Loki]

I don't get that. What couldn't he do in MSG3 that would be acomplished on a new system?

I've never known a king to even TOUCH chicken.

[Draygone]

I for one will not be playing on the next-gen consoles unless something really awesome comes out for it that I absolutely must play. For now, I'm perfectly fine playing my NES, SNES, and Super/Game Boy/Color/Advance.

Oh, and Sega Genesis.

[John Mora]

I don't get that. What couldn't he do in MSG3 that would be acomplished on a new system?

Illustrate to us why Snake and Otacon's love dare not speak its name.

[Ivalice]

I find that consoles are updating so frequently because they are trying to compete with this


Lighting shaders (http://www.unrealtechnology.com/screens/SoftShadows.jpg)
Light blooms (http://www.unrealtechnology.com/screens/HDRGlow.jpg)
2000000 character (http://www.unrealtechnology.com/screens/character_creation1.jpg)
The aftermath (http://www.unrealtechnology.com/screens/character_creation3.jpg)
Sprite collision with about 10 grand of sprites Im guessing. (http://www.unrealtechnology.com/screens/Cascade3.jpg)

Developers want to use the newer technology of bump mapping and shaders like the light picture above. The current consoles cant process this stuff. Sure bump mapping was used in bloodrayne and the chronicles of riddick. But you can hardly tell compared to this stuff.

2000000 versus 2000 is an incredible difference.


The best looking game I have seen for the PS3 is a game called dark sector, they are playing with bump mapping and some pretty sic lighting. We are developing for Xbox 2, and this has made our jumps in poly counts and texture maps incredibly different.

[Loki]

Psh. "Graphics." It's how you use them that counts.

Look at Rez. The graphics arn't at the hight of technology, but what they do and how the do it is beyond anything 2000000 character bump maping can achive.

[SirTMagus]

Ico and the Metal Gear Solid series are on PS2 and they look pretty amazing to me.

And FF12 and Wanda and the Colossus aren't even out yet.

[Ivalice]

:wink I never said gaming was all about graphics, Ive just observed how giddy everyone gets when they are told they can use higher counts for things. Personally I like seeing developers use resources for other elements causing a better immersion for the player. Lighting and weather effects that are realtime are a couple examples.

Personally I think bump mapping is over hyped, doom 3 is a perfect example and I thought the game was crap. Bioware just recently aquired licensing for the Unreal 3, I think bioware is one of the best companys at balancing art and gameplay to make a very enjoyable experience. It will be quite interesting to see what they do with the engine.

[Draygone]

What exactly is bump mapping?

[Loki]

Bump Mapping is a technique that makes surfices look like they have texture, when in reality, the models are flat.

Say there is a cube in 3d space. It's perfictly smooth and white on all sides. We'll you could put a "metel" texture on it to make it gray and look like it was made of metel. This texture would have information on it so that when virtual light hit it the light would be reflected off it in ways that made it seem the cube had a grainy texture to it. But the cube itself didn't sundenly become textured. That would eat up WAY to much prosessing power. It's still flat. It's like an optical illusion, kinda.

[Denmo]

Hah.. I always thought bump mapping was making sure my character ran into the wall at the right place.

Now I feel stupid for yelling, "THIS GAME HAS AWFUL BUMP MAPPING" whenever I ran off the map. :lol

[Ivalice]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v106/Ivalice/peefinal1.jpg

Just to elaborate on what MK said, The above pic has two cubes with a metal texture. The one in the foreground has a bump mad and the one in the back ground doesnt.

Notice the difference? Basically, what games are doing now is using these bump maps along with real time lighting to make the surface appear as if it has depth.

Old models used 1 map, and the new stuff uses 2.
1 map is color information, and the other is a gray scale using black as low point and white as high points.

[Draygone]

Oh yeah, I know what you're talking about now. There's been several games I've played when I saw something modeled really well except I found out it was completely flat when I stepped up to it.