Gas Shortage in Atlanta

[thetruecoolness]

I was talking to my Mom today and she told me a couple of gas stations where I used to live had run out of gas. I was like ???. Apparently this has effected all of Metro Atlanta http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/myfox/pa...Y&pageId=3.2.1.

Just curious if this has happened to anywhere else. Also those people saying we're not close to hitting peak oil are liars. Something as small as a Category 2 hurricane should not be able to cause a shortage of oil 5 states away from the center of impact. Certainly some stations still have gas, but I've never heard of a gas station running out of gas in my lifetime.

Good thing I drive a Prius, and only have an average 6 mile daily commute.

[Bon]

Re: Gas Shortage in Atlanta

I'm pretty sure this is gonna make gas shoot up to the 5 dollar mark. Supply and demand...evil bastards.

[Magik]

Re: Gas Shortage in Atlanta

Hurricanes head towards Texas and everyone freaks out about the refineries and distributors blowing up or something. A gas panic ensues, everyone fills up at once and starts filling up canisters for their generators (which they won't need). At least, that's what happened in Florida about a week ago. We're just starting to get gas back into the stations now, but for a week there was nothing (and when there was a little something, the prices were up by at least .50c if not more). Ridiculous, eh?

[Kirin]

Re: Gas Shortage in Atlanta

Gas is in low supply in south GA too. Last week's panic caused the prices to rise over $1.00 in just 45 minutes. I even overheard people saying that gas in Valdosta is so expensive others were driving to Florida just to fill up.

[The Toecutter]

Re: Gas Shortage in Atlanta

Also those people saying we're not close to hitting peak oil are liars.

It is highly probably that peak oil has already occured and that oil production is currently in a plateau. This will possible continue for a year or few before an irreversable decline.

Something as small as a Category 2 hurricane should not be able to cause a shortage of oil 5 states away from the center of impact. Certainly some stations still have gas, but I've never heard of a gas station running out of gas in my lifetime.

Give it a few years, and a hurricane won't be needed to cause shortages; they will probably be nationwide and chronic.

Good thing I drive a Prius, and only have an average 6 mile daily commute.

I've again taken up to riding a bike, starting this morning. It's a lot cheaper, and leaves more income to put into finishing that electric Triumph GT6 when I get it over here. I'm still moping over how I'm going to find a substitute to the Zilla controller; I refuse to settle for normal performance. I want an ass-hauler, dammit. Just as circumstance would have it, as soon as I have cash to resume the project, a component critical to its completion as it was initially intended is no longer available.

[Shard]

Re: Gas Shortage in Atlanta

There's a firm in San Jose that's developing 100% electric motorcycles, both street and off-road versions. I have to say my curiosity is piqued. They had a few operable prototypes, but I don't think they've gone into production yet.

Edit: My memory is ****. It's Zero Motorcycles out of Santa Cruz and they seem to have an offroad focus...and they're accepting orders.

[Karr Lord of Chaos]

Re: Gas Shortage in Atlanta

why should consumers pay for gas companies not properly for filling their orders? there is tons of oil pumped out of the ground, there is no reason for a shortage other then an excuse to gouge more.

[Chad]

Re: Gas Shortage in Atlanta

And ya know, evacuating a large city crucial to the production of gasoline should have nothing to do with it.

[The Toecutter]

Re: Gas Shortage in Atlanta

A pipeline from Houston that supplies most of the oil for the South-Eastern US was shut down as a result of the hurricane. It has only recently started to come back online, and nowhere near full capacity.

So of course they'll use the "supply and demand" argumenents to "justify" the price increases, even though these same companies are at fault for stalling alternatives to oil to begin with, allowing situations like this to occur... and make a hefty profit as a result.

I've heard that Atlanta, GA, and Nashville, TN, are completely out of gasoline, where you cannot find it. While this may be exagerration, it is probably very close to the truth anyhow, or may in fact be true. I haven't been to Nashville or Atlanta though, so someone there could probably say something about it.



America is also entering a depression with certainty(there is no margin of error left), and not as a result of this hurricane. Yesterday, oil spiked upwards by $25 in one day and gold again rose to over $900. If our government bails out the billionaire bankers who set the financial crisis up, we will see rapid inflation; today, you might make $20k a year and pay $2.50 for a loaf of bread, but a year or two later you still might make only $20k a year and then have to pay $10 for a loaf of bread. If TSHTF in an even bigger way, we will get to see Zimbabwe style hyperinflation and the U.S. becomes like Africa where we make what will amount to a few hundred dollars a year adjusted for inflation, so that the billionaires don't have to lose their wealth. Enjoy.

[DK]

Re: Gas Shortage in Atlanta

Hey Terr I got a nice 05 grand prix, think that's a good candidate for electric conversion?

[The Toecutter]

Re: Gas Shortage in Atlanta

Hey Terr I got a nice 05 grand prix, think that's a good candidate for electric conversion?

It depends on whether or not you're willing to shell out large amounts of money for expensive components that aren't mass produced.

The short answer is no. Why? Look at the car's specs:

Curb weight: ~3,450 lbs
Gross Vehicle Weight Rating: ~4,680 lbs
Drag coefficient: 0.31
Reference Area(estimated from width and height): 22.2 sq ft

You can probably remove about 500 lbs of internal combustion related components from the chassis, and a few hundred pounds of filler weight(sound deadening material, ect.). Assuming you still want to be able to seat 4 occupants, this means you can safely store about 1,100 lbs of batteries on board without needing new suspension.

An electric car with a 0.31 drag coefficient, 22.2 sq ft reference area, and 4,600 lbs weight with occupants would need about 350 wh/mile from the battery pack to maintain 60 mph.

Since Chevron has suppressed Nickel-Metal Hydride batteries for EV applications, you don't have that as an option, but it would have eliminated any compromises. ~30 Wh/lb of usable capacity, $300/kWh in volume production, shelf life in decades, and 1,200 cycles to 80% discharge according to COBASYS(I have links to SCE and UC Davis reports that indicate much higher). This would have allowed the potential to give this car a 100 mile range at 60 mph with a $7,000 pack that would last upwards of 200,000 miles. Thanks to Chevron and General Motors, this isn't an option.

Lead acid batteries have about 12 Wh/lb of usable capacity at the 1 hour discharge rate. You could thus have about 14 kWh of usable battery capacity on board, or around 40 miles range to 100% discharge with lead acid batteries. However, deep discharging lead acid batteries all of the time will only get you about 200 cycles(IF you are prudent enough to have a good battery management system, a suitable charger, and thermal management for cold weather and to protect from overheating). You'd be extremely lucky for the pack to last 10,000 miles if you regularly drive 30 miles or more per day, and since such a pack would cost about $2,500, it would not be economical in this configuration. A DC system of about 150 horsepower using the lead acid battery pack outlined could be done for under $15,000, *if* you can find a Zilla controller(no longer made as of August 2008), otherwise you'll have to settle fopr a measly 70 horsepower or so using a Curtis or Belktronix controller, unless you can find something more powerful on the used market(I'm in a dilemma myself trying to find an alternative to the Zilla for my Triumph GT6 ).

If you are willing to dump $25,000 into a conversion by buying expensive, hand-built components, you could get acceptable results. Thundersky LiFePO4 batteries are about $600/kWh in low volume. These last about 1,000 cycles to full discharge, but longer if discharged around 30-50% of their maximum capacity. About $15,000 worth of batteries could potentially get you 80-100 miles range at highway speeds(reduce energy consumption to about 280-300 Wh/mile from dumping about 600 lbs of battery weight over the lead acid version) and the pack could last you over 150,000 miles thus being economical at $3.00/gallon gasoline or higher, leaving $10,000 left for the rest of the conversion. However, finding a suitable charger for these batteries and a controller that will prevent the user from drawing too much current from them(thus destroying them) within this budget will be difficult(but not impossible). Metric Mind Engineering used to offer surplus SIEMENS 107 horsepower AC motor/inverter combinations for about $7,000, and you could find a BRUSA charger suitable for these batteries for about $1,500. Basically, a configuration of this sort could give you 0-60 mph ~12-13 seconds(not too much worse than the original gasoline version and on par with most midsize cars from the 1990s), a top speed higher than the gasoline version had(due to 11,000 rpm limit of AC motor, much higher than the gasoline engine's rev limiter is set at!), and a usable range of 80-100 miles per charge.


Overall, the Grand Prix is heavy and has poor aerodynamics, making it a poor choice.

Even if you did convert it, good luck figuring out how to reverse-engineer much of the embedded systems placed in the car so you can get the gauges and electronic devices to function with the gasoline engine removed.

If GM would have designed it to have about half the aerodynamic drag(possible without sacrificing style, even), even lead acid batteries would have become viable for it despite its hefty weight.

[DK]

Re: Gas Shortage in Atlanta

If you are willing to dump $25,000 into a conversion by buying expensive, hand-built components, you could get acceptable results.

Eh I like other cars more than a grand prix }:3