Israeli - Palestinian Cease Fire

[archerarmored]

I'm really happy about this, it looks like a positive step. There is one problem, although there is that new palestinian authority, does he actually harbor respect from the palestinians to make them stop the attacks also? If arafat did this, it would have probably stopped right away but he was a zealot and his people are too....

[John Mora]

Re: Israeli - Palestinian Cease Fire

I imagine this whole Middle East thing to be solved by tea time!

[IRC]

Re: Israeli - Palestinian Cease Fire

I kind of like Abbas for this job. He seems to take peace seriously and practically. I think he'll be able to get it done.

[The Toecutter]

Re: Israeli - Palestinian Cease Fire

If arafat did this, it would have probably stopped right away but he was a zealot and his people are too....

The same could be said just as well for Sharon and his people...


Who knows how long it will last. The election in which the new Palestinean leader was chosen was not without its problems.

[IRC]

Re: Israeli - Palestinian Cease Fire

Blah blah blah, can we get over the elections and focus on the people who are now in charge?

[The Toecutter]

Re: Israeli - Palestinian Cease Fire

If you replace "focus on" with "remove from office", progress would be made.

Of course given the nature of corruption in industrialized society, options for this are relegated to more gruesome methods due to the marginalization of dissent through force or otherwise.

[IRC]

Re: Israeli - Palestinian Cease Fire

Yeah, lets revolt, that will solve everything.

[The Toecutter]

Re: Israeli - Palestinian Cease Fire

If you are thinking I'm suggesting that revolt is the only means, you are mistaken.

[IRC]

Re: Israeli - Palestinian Cease Fire

No, I'm suggesting that all your means for accomplishing change are useless. The system is too big for you to change it from outside. What we need is to change it from the inside. Get rid of old senetors and inject new blood.

Personally I think that something will happen in Bush's next term that absolutely forces us to wake up and demand that there is change.

But right now protesting and talking about the election and wanting to get rid of certain people just isn't going to get it done.

[John Mora]

Re: Israeli - Palestinian Cease Fire

Get rid of old senetors and inject new blood.

There are terrible, corrupt young politicians, too.

[IRC]

Re: Israeli - Palestinian Cease Fire

New blood does not simply mean younger people.

[John Mora]

Re: Israeli - Palestinian Cease Fire

New blood does not simply mean younger people.

It also doesn't mean good people. Just new people.

[IRC]

Re: Israeli - Palestinian Cease Fire

Personally I think that something will happen in Bush's next term that absolutely forces us to wake up and demand that there is change.

That last part implies that we won't accept corrupt politicians.

[John Mora]

Re: Israeli - Palestinian Cease Fire

Allow me to disagree.

[The Toecutter]

Re: Israeli - Palestinian Cease Fire

No, I'm suggesting that all your means for accomplishing change are useless. The system is too big for you to change it from outside. What we need is to change it from the inside. Get rid of old senetors and inject new blood.

Changing the current system from the inside is like putting a turd in a wedding gown. The system itself is flawed. Simply changing leaders will not get rid of the unconstitutional Homeland Security Department, will not get rid of the unconstitutional PATRIOT Act, will not end an unconstitutional war, will not allow others outside the main political party to get a voice(Some say it's two parties), will not adress the issue of shrinking oil reserves and the reliance of our entire society on this resource, will not adress an illegal drug war, willnot fix the deficet problem, will not cut down the immense beurocracy we have, will not end the omnibus spending bills, will not protect farmers that are singled out and targeted by corporations and put to ruin with frivolous lawsuits, will not make those that have abused their authoirty accountable or even limit such abuses in the future.

Direct action is needed, big or small. Ending the abuse or making attempts to end it is differrent from learning to live with it and letting it get worse.

Personally I think that something will happen in Bush's next term that absolutely forces us to wake up and demand that there is change.

You obviously haven't been out much. About half the country is already demanding change, and they are being ignored. The other half mostly doesn't care, unless they are in control. Most that are demanding change don't even bother to vote; they already know that their vote won't be counted. Some in that category do it as a symbolic gesture, hoping for the best, knowing nothing will come of it. Many that don't care have gotten a wake-up call this election when they found too that their vote wasn't counted, but manipulated, discarded, or nullified.

People have woken up. They were woken up when they stormed the Ohio State House of Representatives after finding that the votes in their county turned out to be a negative number. They were woken up when they filed hundreds of thousands of complaints when they went to vote. They were woken up when they saw that our exit polls were more off than Ukraine's exit polls and took to the streets and even held vigils in Portland, Los Angeles, New York, Houston, DC, Chicago, and others(But it didn't happen if it wasn't reported on the news). They were woken up when they took to the streets in millions and protested an illegal war, despite use of force on them for no legitamate reason. They were woken up when they protested the conventions of a single party acting as two parties, even being detained illegally and sent to internment camps to be released days and sometimes weeks later.

People are awake to the implications of this administration. They're just being ignored by the shrinking minority of those that aren't and reviled by those currently in control. If they begin to pose a threat to the heirarchical pecking order, it is not uncommon for them to be met with ridicule, insults, or even force.

But right now protesting and talking about the election and wanting to get rid of certain people just isn't going to get it done.

It's better than doing nothing and remaining content while this country goes to hell. You know what they say about putting a frog in a pot of water then boiling it. I prefer to use the frog in a blender analogy myself...