America's Obesity Problem

[archerarmored]

Instead of making you people read through my stuff, I'm cutting right to the cheese and asking what you guys think about it....

[Funk]

It's a large problem.

[IRC]

:lol

[John Mora]

http://largesse.net/gifs/fatproud.gif

[Kefka Jr.]

They're not fat chicks anymore, they're BBWs.

Mm-mm.

[IRC]

Wow, america's corrupted youth.

[Kire]

I really try not to judge, having not been at the weight I'd like to be and struggling w/ not being able to eat the same stuff as my friends cuz I can't keep up w/ their metabolism, but you should really start taking care of yourself when you get to a certain piont of being overweight..

I think American society promotes our fatness just by structure alone. Have you ever tried getting a healthy lunch on your lunch hour? You have to look hard...and on top of that, work long hours at a desk, come home, hardly be able to motivate yourself to do anything...

*waits for Terr's post about the American work week*

[Denmo]

America's culture and economy as a whole is designed to make the middle-class lazy, compared to other third-worlders.

However, there really is no excuse to be fat or overweight, unless it's disease/work related. I think everyone has the ability and time to get up and get out. They're just not choosing to.

[Kefka Jr.]

Yeah, when you think about it, fat people really don't have an excuse. I know I didn't. I just kinda looked down at my body and was like, "WHOA. How did THIS happen?" I mean, how do you miss the opportunity to correct that?

P.S. I'm not fat anymore.

[The Toecutter]

the American work week

That's half the problem. Thus, fast food has become the norm here, while in other industrialized countries like Spain, Italy, and Switzerland, fast food is generally shunned due to its lack of quality and due to the fact that people actually have time to sit down and enjoy a meal, unlike America, where people shoving low quality food down their throats while trying to make a commute on time because their greedy employer wants to work them like dogs for as little pay as possible is the norm.

Add to that a lack of income for food means you're going to buy lower quality and fattier foods, usually fatty low quality hamburger, cheap government-subsidized dairy products(high calories per dollar ratio), and lots of cheap starchy filling foods like potatoes. Low quality, poor nutrients, cheap, and high in calories. The American diet. Throw some hot Pockets in the microwave and scarf it down while you're on your way to work. Can't be costing any precious company time now with trivial things like eating, sleeping, and enjoying yourself.

With the advent of genetically modified crops and their complecations, poor sanitary conditions in food processing plants, and the spread of BSE within cattle, the American diet is also quite poisonous. I won't go into some rant, but an excellent source of info is a book titled Fast Food Nation. Although not all-encompassing or comprehensive on the nature of the problems, it is a must read.

[Nixon]

Yeah, when you think about it, fat people really don't have an excuse

Actually, some of them do. Sometimes their weight is directly related to a medical condition. One of my friends at work is overwieght, but she can't help it. She has a number of health conditions that make it almost impossible for her to lose weight. It's tough for her, because people judge her harshly for something she really can't control at all.

I try to be sensitive to those types of issues, although usually, most people that are overweight can do something about it.

Dave was slightly overweight for a while because his diet sucked. He was eating junk and had no time or money for decent meals. Once his situation improved, he was able to lose the weight he had gained and get back to a healthy norm. Exercise seemed to be the key.

I think we as a nation need to get more active. Just taking walks around your neighborhood or 10-15 mins of other types of exercise a day can help.

[Loki]

Exercise seemed to be the key.

You're a fool! Exercise shmetzersize. It's all about Carb counting!

[The Toecutter]

Actually, some of them do. Sometimes their weight is directly related to a medical condition. One of my friends at work is overwieght, but she can't help it. She has a number of health conditions that make it almost impossible for her to lose weight. It's tough for her, because people judge her harshly for something she really can't control at all.

My friend Jenny has this problem due to hormone imbalances. People used to mess with her because of it.

Dave was slightly overweight for a while because his diet sucked. He was eating junk and had no time or money for decent meals.

This is the situation for most people that are overweight.

Once his situation improved, he was able to lose the weight he had gained and get back to a healthy norm. Exercise seemed to be the key.

Too bad exercise takes time. Time which no one making < $12/hour, with kids, and/or not living in their parents' home has. Otherwise the problem in America would be solved.

In Europe with 30 hour and under workweeks the norm, even after taxes people there still get paid more per annum than we do(Compare after tax purchasing power parity per capita of the U.S. and Finland, or the U.S. and Switzerland on a per hour basis. About a 30% disparity...). And they have free time. Free. Time. In America, it's a luxury, especially if you are trying to raise a family. I know people in my neighborhood that claim they have gone three years without having a weekend off to themselves or a vacation longer than 4 days, working 3 part-time jobs with no benefits, trying to eek out enough money to pay their bills. Time for exercise is not at all present, let alone time to unwind or even sleep.

[IRC]

No it's not. It's a simple equation. If you burn more calories than you consume, you loose weight. Because of this, you simply cannot get away without exercise.

Atkins diets **** me off because its a sham that became a fad diet and everyone is doing it. The reason that it works is that instead of having carbs which are harder for the body to absorb, you have protein which is easier. But not eating any carbs and eating all meat is horrible for you. There are good carbs and bad carbs, just like there is good meat and bad meat, and good fats and bad fats. Our bodies are made of all three so you can't tell me that if I cut one out my body will be fine. That's bull****.

The key is to eat the good meat and good carbs and cut down on the bad stuff. It's about moderation and getting exercise. And when I say exercise I don't mean you have to go work out hard for two hours. Usually on the average person just a thirty minute workout will work. If you get your heart rate up for 30 minutes you will burn off the calories you've consumed. It's that easy.

[John Mora]

Too bad exercise takes time. Time which no one making < $12/hour, with kids, and/or not living in their parents' home has. Otherwise the problem in America would be solved.

There are plenty of people that could use exercise but don't do anything about it that don't fit those criteria.

[Alzar]

Terr is right, y'know. Fatty crap food is cheap. Healthy food is expensive. Once you fuggers start buying your own food you'll notice this.

Freshman 15 = Poor College Student

[IRC]

Dude healthy food is not that expensive. Grab a bag of skinless chicken breasts probably go for $10 for 4-5 pounds. Can of tuna fish, $1.50 if even that much. Lettuce, brocolli, spinach cheap, cheap, cheap. Pasta and sauce $10 of both will last me two weeks.

Now if you go to a health food store and buy low fat this and low carb that. Yeah it's going to cost you. But you don't have to do that to eat right.

[RPGD]

Screw buying sauce, make-a your own!

Seriously, though, making your own sauce will help you organize your diet a bit more as you're the one tossing everything in. Also, it just tastes better (if you know what you're doing).

This goes for just about anything you can cook yourself. Cooking = beneficial.

[Alzar]

Dude healthy food is not that expensive. Grab a bag of skinless chicken breasts probably go for $10 for 4-5 pounds. Can of tuna fish, $1.50 if even that much. Lettuce, brocolli, spinach cheap, cheap, cheap. Pasta and sauce $10 of both will last me two weeks.

Now if you go to a health food store and buy low fat this and low carb that. Yeah it's going to cost you. But you don't have to do that to eat right.

I think you're full of crap, honestly.

[The Toecutter]

There are plenty of people that could use exercise but don't do anything about it that don't fit those criteria.

They are the minority, I can assure you. They are about as common as people of such in other industrialized nations.

Dude healthy food is not that expensive. Grab a bag of skinless chicken breasts probably go for $10 for 4-5 pounds. Can of tuna fish, $1.50 if even that much. Lettuce, brocolli, spinach cheap, cheap, cheap. Pasta and sauce $10 of both will last me two weeks.

Try going on about $2.00 a day for all your meals. You'll likely be skipping lunch and sometimes breakfast. This is more closer to the norm that the bottom 40% of this country live. That percentage, needless to say, does NOT have computer access, or often, even cable TV. Ever shop at Aldi lately?

Good luck getting adequate calories from that can of tuna fish(Not only that, but if you're poor, that's a lot of money when you can buy some Ramen noodles for $.10 a pack, a sack of potatoes for $1.50, and some sort of cheese-like substance). Where I live at least, brocolli, spinach, ect. isn't cheap, even when it's canned and also an off brand. Fresh produce? Not cheap at all, exceeding the $3.00 per meal per person level of cost. Pasta and sauce? Also takes time to cook, and the nutritional value of that is mediocre at best, unless you have money to dump on expensive spices or higher quality meat or more expensive(but still fatty/unhealthy) cream sauces. Spaghetti tends to be the only affordable option on the pasta route if you're poor, and of course the meast used is anything but healthy.



$2.00 a day. That will get you three packs of Ramen noodles, a can of pringles, a few grilled cheese sandwiches or hamburgers(if you have time to cook them, cost spread out), or every other day some crap from the dollar menu at McDonalds for when there's no time to cook.

Have kids? Lets say you have 3 of them. $8.00 a day then including cost to feed yourself. $3,000 a year would go to food. A single parent working multiple part time jobs sometimes has difficulty managing 4x that on minimum wage. At least 1/4 of the income would be going to food.


That diet would make you fat as hell in no time, yet keep you nice and malnourished. Working 40 hours a week and spending about 10 hours a week driving/walking around shuffling between part time jobs? You won't have time for any excersize. Especially with kids to raise.



I know people in such a situation. It is depressing.

[IRC]

Dude, all I know is that I can get all that plus milk, eggs, a couple of pounds of sandwich meat, some potatoe salad, canned veggies, for under $100 and it'll last me 2-3 weeks.

Edit: Next time I go shopping I'll post my reciept.

[The Toecutter]

Dude, all I know is that I can get all that plus milk, eggs, a couple of pounds of sandwich meat, some potatoe salad, canned veggies, for under $100 and it'll last me 2-3 weeks.

If you have $75 to spend on food for one person for 3 weeks, you're eating pretty damn good compared to most people.

I challenge you. $2.00 per day. Live off of it. $2.00 per day.

[IRC]

who in the hell makes $2.00 a day?

And even more if you only eat off of $2.00 a day you should not have an obesity problem.

[The Toecutter]

I mean $2.00 a day to spend on food. That's not a figure on how much one would make, but how much one may have left to spend on food after bills are paid.


And you will have an obesity problem, unless you wish to starve yourself to death by buying the wrong foods and not getting enough calories. The dollar/calorie ratio is an important factor, and there isn't much of a middle ground.

[SirTMagus]

What about the other side of the equation? I'm thin. I'm so thin if I were to get any thinner I'd almost resemble a skeletal Auschwitz victim.

Then again, I eat reasonably well, I ran cross country for 4+ years and still exercise regularly and no matter what I eat and how much I eat I could never gain a pound. MY ARMS ARE GREEN BEANS. And it hurts to sit for long periods of time in ****ty classroom chairs. My film teacher called me and a similarly thin friend "the Buttless Wonders."

So, just so you know there's suffering EVERYWHERE.

...

I read this post as I ate a McNugget meal. ROFFLE!!!!!!11 *my soul cries*

[Armored]

$2.00 a day. That will get you three packs of Ramen noodles, a can of pringles, a few grilled cheese sandwiches or hamburgers(if you have time to cook them, cost spread out), or every other day some crap from the dollar menu at McDonalds for when there's no time to cook.

You can get all that with $2?! Then what the hell are soup kitchens for?

[Nixon]

Heh. Until I got my own job in high school, my daily allowance for food was $1.00, eventually moved up to $1.50 so I could afford a tray lunch. Sure, I'd get dinner, but it was usually something crappy and usually very very late in the evening (8-10pm).

Sometimes I actually miss those tray lunches... for some reason... they were hardly good by any means... still... :lol

Oh, and Dave fit the criteria you mentioned that wouldn't be conducive to getting any exercise (crappy hours, crappy pay, crappy job, other obligations) but he managed it somehow. Probably because of the fringe benefits.

[Sampson]

Last June I weighed 320 lbs. At 6'2 I was pitful. But I changed my ways. I now weigh 250 lbs., while I'm still overweight, I'm much better off and I'm still loosing weight. At one point last year, when I was working grunt work at a construction site on a 1800 calorie diet I was loosing a pound and a half a day.

A major reason that the general US population is overweight, that is often over-looked, is big government. There are different types of sugars, good and bad, and high-fructose corn syrup is high on the list of "bad" sugars. Yet, if you look on the label of any of your sugar containing food products, high-fructose corn syrup will be the sugar of choice. Why? It's cheapest. We have in place a tarrif on table sugar, keeping our price on table sugar in the US much higher than the price of table sugar in other industrialized nations. This is reason why, if you say go to a Coke factory, and taste the version of Coke other countries have, it will seem odd. Other countries have table sugar in their coke--which, while not healthy is much better for you than high-fructose corn syrup.

I'm not sure if the Atkins diet is as unhealthy as its enemies make it out to be. The body has amazing food processing systems. It can, if deprived for fat long enough, turn green beans into pure fat.

[The Toecutter]

You can get all that with $2?! Then what the hell are soup kitchens for?

That cost is amortized over the course of about a week. Spend $14 per week for food for one person, and that is what you'll get. It's not easy, and the quality of food will be horrid, but some people don't have much a choice.

It's better than not having *any* money to spend, which would relegate you to the soup kitchens. 1/3 of homeless people in this country are employed and work. Can't even afford a place to live...

A major reason that the general US population is overweight, that is often over-looked, is big government.

I agree. Our government also subsidizes the use of high fructose corn syrup, as has been demanded by numerous agribusiness lobbyists. Just another example of big business growing the government some more...

Ever look at the food pyramid published by our government? Not exactly a healthy way to eat. Ever hear of when Ronald Reagan wanted ketchup classified as a vegetable on school lunch menus?

There are different types of sugars, good and bad, and high-fructose corn syrup is high on the list of "bad" sugars. Yet, if you look on the label of any of your sugar containing food products, high-fructose corn syrup will be the sugar of choice. Why? It's cheapest.

Genetically modifed corn makes it even cheaper. Studies showing GM crops causing higher rates of intestinal/stomach cancer, along with garunteed stomach and intestinal legions in mice and rats be damned!

Monsanto, who tried to hide such studies, completely denounces them, even though they provided much of the experiments and the data/materials from which to conduct them.

We have in place a tarrif on table sugar, keeping our price on table sugar in the US much higher than the price of table sugar in other industrialized nations. This is reason why, if you say go to a Coke factory, and taste the version of Coke other countries have, it will seem odd. Other countries have table sugar in their coke--which, while not healthy is much better for you than high-fructose corn syrup.

Even before the corn syrup was placed in goods during the 80s, the sugar tariff existed. It is more or less greed. Those same companies still made enough money, even when they used actual sugar with the tariff in place. The sugar tariff is only like 9 cents per pound. A typical can of soda would about 45 grams of sugar, or less than 1 penny per can of soda payed on the tariff. That tariff is a wholly insignificant portion of a food company's typical profit margins, so that is not the reason the companies switched to corn syrup, I assure you.

Unlike sugar, high fructose corn syrup can induce type II diabetes. Again, the companies don't give a damn. It's all about their money, and squeezing out every last cent they can, without regard to anything else, no matter how cheap. GM did this with the Corvair, refusing to spend $1 per car to fix a problem with the rear sway bar...


Two fold problem. Restrict use of the hazardous substance(high fructose corn syrup) in mass-produced drinks and food items OR label all products that use it AND cut the tariff. Even without the tariff, the syrup is still cheaper, but I also don't think the tariff should exist. The consumer shouldn't have to give their money to uncle scam on basic items such as food.

[The_Real_Crunk]

Is it just THAT hard for people to get a job on weekends?

A friend of mine is in college and hes always complaining about not having any money. Lucky him though he lives at home still while going to school.

I told him to get a job on weekends, but he said no, becasue thats his only time off and he wants to enjoy it.

Im not going to school, and I work 6 days a week, 4-6 hours a day depending on how busy it is, washing dishes at a resteraunt, for $8 an hour(minimum wage here). I bring in about $1200 a month. Juts got a raise too, after working there for 8 months with no days off, or sick days.

Even if I only worked weekends because of school Id still bring in about $72+ a week. Get a job.

:p

Edit-converting that to US funds thats about $57 a week. Still good money.

[Alzar]

....College costs more than $57 per week, dummy.

Not to mention food.

And housing.

Dummy.

:D

[The Toecutter]

You live in Canada.



Here in America, there aren't any jobs.

If I could find a 25 hour a week job where I live, I'd take it in a heartbeat. I'm a college student, and I don't really need the money, but I'd like to have it so I can finish up my electric car...

[Alzar]

I'm working 20 hours a week at my school...Maybe your school has some jobs Terr?

I kinda got lucky for my job though. It's pretty much the only non-work study job on campus.

[The_Real_Crunk]

All the colleges Ive looked at have programs that allow you to pay off everything AFTER you graduate. Which allows you to use your $57 for something good.

Lots of people use that method. After they graduate they either live back at home with there parents and work, or they live with a few roommates and split the bills, and work. Then they save up and pay off there college fees in about a year and half.

[The Toecutter]

Yes, but everyone has taken them. I'm lucky to get 5 hours a week in now. $10 an hour isn't bad, but still...

I have a $10,000 project in my garage, and I'm getting very anxious about letting it sit there in that state in this neighborhood.

[Alzar]

Some don't/can't? Oversimplying? Live in Canada?

...Wait, have programs that let you pay later?

As in taking loans? Or the school actually has the program? In the US we take loans/grants from government based on parent's income, and the amount for loans + grants are being reduced.

You don't generally get your tuition completley paid for in loans, let alone are able to pay your own expenses. Or at least, I didn't.

[The_Real_Crunk]

Some schools here have a program that lets you do that.

But I was mainly talking about student loans.

http://www.canlearn.ca/nslsc/apply/Bc/nlIndex.cfm?langnslsc=en&IT=PUBLIC

Use the loan to pay your fees, while working on weekends to bring in cash for food or whatever else you need or. Or if the loan isnt enough use some of the extra money you bring in to pay your fees.

Then after you graduate get a job and pay off your loan with monthly payments over the next year or two depending on how much your fees were.

[IRC]

I pay for everything with a student loan. And I would kill for a $10 an hour job. Right now I get $5.25.

[Alex]

I haven't eaten anything all day...

And when I do, I'm looking forward to Top Ramen or Fast Food.


I could live off 2 dollars a day. I practically do.

Am I healthy? I feel healthy.

Am I overweight? Quite the opposite, but those weight-charts were made by fat people.

[The Toecutter]

How many hours do you get to work that job though?

As I said, I'm lucky to get in five hours a week.

Normally, I get in 1-2...

Been looking for a minimum wage job for 3 months now. Every one I have seen in a wanted ad was taken as soon as I inquired. 30+ applications, not one hit. Everyone I know in my neighborhood is also looking for a job, whether they have one or not.

Too bad there aren't enough to go around...

[Cosmic Jeff]

It's expected that within a couple of years complications formed from obesity are likely to replace complications from smoking cigarettes as the #1 most preventable cause of death in the U.S..

I am very sensitive to cases where it is out of the power of the individual. However, I get angry every time I see fat little kids that look like sausages that are obviously the way they are because they've been spoiled. Such is the case when you live in the 2nd weathliest county in America.

[Czechs Mex]

First of all, everything IRC has said in this topic is right on the money. So go back and read that.

As far as the poverty<->obesity argument goes,
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/czechsmex/obese.gif

Obesity affects people of ALL income levels. Sure, as the graph shows, the percentage of obese women is higher for the poorest fifth of households than it is for anyone else. Terr probably has a point in this respect, and I understand his arguments. But about 75% of all obese people are NOT in this lowest bracket, so saying that poverty is one of the biggest causes for obesity might be a little far-fetched.

I personally blame obesity on American priorities. People are always saying they don't have time for things, but how often is this REALLY true? If you make it a priority to not be a fatass, you won't be one. It's not difficult to eat healty and exercise for 30 minutes a day. Unless you don't care / make lame excuses. Then it's impossible.

[The Toecutter]

What country is that chart from? That might make a difference in your point.

A far higher percentage of Americans are obese than that chart displays. Not only that, but the criteria of differing countries for obesity will be different. America has more lax criteria than does Britain.

7/10 Americans are overweight, over 3/10 are obese, 2/10 of the obese are extremely obese.

America's obesity rate is about 40% higher than that chart.

[The_Real_Crunk]

Yeah, it says England on there.

In my area like almost every kid I see from 5-14 is fat. And not just husky either. Im talking like 190 pound 13 year olds here.

Canada has its fat people too!

[Czechs Mex]

Yep, the chart is for England, but it still makes the point that obesity isn't some problem that's almost exclusive to poverty-stricken families. Rich people can be chubby too, damnit.

I saw some other graphs for the U.S... I'll post one in a sec.

Edit: Alright, this is the best I can come up with. It's comparing obesity to income for families in west virginia, but I'm assuming that's a fairly accurate representation for the rest of the U.S. population.

Note this graph is in a different format than the last one.

http://www.wvdhhr.org/bph/oehp/obesity/graphics/figure8.gif

[The Toecutter]

Is that graph exclusive to a single state? That also would not be representative of America.


Of all american adults, obesity figures can be found here:

http://www.obesity.org/subs/fastfacts/obesity_US.shtml


For a chart describing the trends I mentioned(Among all ages, not just adults like the stats I mentioned covered):

http://www.statcan.ca/english/freepub/82M0022XIE/2003001/tables/tablea.9.htm

The poorest fifth have about a 40% higher obesity rate than those in the middle income bracket in America. Double the obesity rate as the wealthiest 5th. This is a far greater disparity than in the state of West Virgina or any other industrialized nation. You can compare directly with Canada on that chart. Eliminate children and youth from the stats and the disparity grows further.


The median family spends $3.50 per day per capita on food. About 12% of their income for a family of 4. The less money spend per person per day on food, the greater the obesity rate. Someone on the Atkins diet(Which isn't very healthy), would typically spend $10 per person per day on food.


Other interesting reading on poverty and obesity:

http://www.frac.org/pdf/hungerandobesity.pdf

[Czechs Mex]

Yes, terr, as I mentioned, it is exclusive to a single state - West Virginia. But even if it's not perfectly representative of the United States, it should give you some kind of insight that income may not be the sole driving factor that determines obesity. I'm not saying it doesn't contribute on some level, but you're completely ignoring the huge portion of people who are NOT living in poverty and yet are still obese.

I fail to see why this is difficult to understand.

Edit: Oh, you added content to your post. that's less frustrating. hold on.

Edit 2: Okay, that's good information. Thanks. I agree with you that income definitely plays a role in obesity, but I guess it was just frustrating because you're ignoring a bunch of other factors that cause obesity as well. It just sounded like you were trying to find one more thing to blame on the government, and that gets kind of old.

Here's a page from one of the links you provided that states the three main causes of obesity.

Genes. Environment. Behavior. (http://www.obesity.org/education/causes.shtml) I would agree with that.

[Alzar]

There's a pretty strong correlation between poor and obese which surprised me to learn at first (normally I would think that poor people would be thin and bony and starving).

Granted it's not the only reason for obesity, but I don't think (hopefully) anyone really implied that crappy fatty food being quick/cheap/easily available for poorer people the ONLY reason for being obese... There is the whole eating too much thing, too, of course.

It's just...Eating crappy fatty foods = cheap + easy + quick = fat people

[The Toecutter]

My statements weren't strictly aimed at poverty stricken families, but at the bottom 40% ,which includes the working class, a step above the working poor or underclass. Working class families aren't middle class by any means, but working class and below are 40% of America that I was referring to. Therin lies half of America's obese, the majority if you discount youth.

*edit*

I'd also like to add, quintiles don't do this stat justice. Of the 20-40% quintile, most of their obese are concentrated in the 20-30% part of that quintile and the latter part of the quintile more closely resembles the middle quintile. Basically, you have 42-43% of America's obese in the 30% poorest of its population.

[Vonwert]

North Carolina is defintally filled with over-weight people.

An insurance company had a survey that had NC as one of the top over-weight states.

(I live in NC incase you didn't know)

I remember when I went to California, and didn't see a single over-weight person...unlike here where you practicaly bump into them all of the time.

We also have an imbred problem...but that is another story.

[The Toecutter]

Speaking of inbreds, just walk into a Walmart.

You will wish you had never seen such things.