View Full Version : Does america compare to the soviet union?
archerarmored
02-07-2005, 10:18 PM
It feels like it, is it written on stone that democracy is the pure and good government?
Czechs Mex
02-07-2005, 10:22 PM
Do you have a better alternative?
I don't think it really matters what we are. I think we're too big anymore for anything to matter. I'm hoping that after four years "big government" gets thrown on its ass because the people have had enough, but the south is too big for that. Pander to Jesus and get in the Whitehouse. See it doesn't matter. It didn't matter about policies or budget deficiets or war. All that mattered was one guy said I believe in God and the ignorant masses went to church on Sunday and thanked the Lord that there was a man smart enough to look to God for how to run our country.
We're all juggling too many balls and pretty soon we'll drop them all.
AlexMagusaka
02-07-2005, 10:32 PM
I remember my slightly-insane 10th grade history teacher said once, "Governments CAN be perfect; but only if every last citizen agrees that it works."
Then my 12th grade teacher described socialist governments: Free healthcare, free college, but with a 50% tax rate.
Honestly there was a point to posting this but I kinda forgot it.
So, uh, yeah.
Man, now I'm going to start wanting to live in Canada again.
archerarmored
02-07-2005, 10:42 PM
moving to canada would ****ing suck
John Mora
02-07-2005, 10:48 PM
Because someone has to say it eventually: we aren't a democracy. We're a democratic republic. There's a difference.
But aren't we the closest thing to a democracy that we have?
John Mora
02-07-2005, 10:58 PM
...What?
Isn't the form of government that the United States of America uses the closest thing to a true democracy?
The Dark Jester
02-07-2005, 11:15 PM
No the chinese.
as well as the haitians.
John Mora
02-07-2005, 11:16 PM
No, a true democracy would be everyone voting on everything.
I understand that, but aren't we the closest thing to that?
Sampson
02-07-2005, 11:36 PM
No, ancient Athens had a true Democracy.
John Mora
02-07-2005, 11:39 PM
Yeah, the closest thing to true democracy IS true democracy. :p
But if a true democracy does not exist, or it existed a long ass time ago, then isn't our country the closest thing to a democracy that exists right now at this present point in time.
Doesn't this belong in the debate forum?
That's just it. There isn't one.
No comment on the topic.
John Mora
02-07-2005, 11:54 PM
You mean the next-closest thing, IRC. And I'm not educated enough to answer that.
Tom Brady hates you Mora.
John Mora
02-07-2005, 11:59 PM
Tom Brady seems a little hate-filled.
Well you are easy to hate.
John Mora
02-08-2005, 12:03 AM
I don't know about that. I just don't know.
From a New Englander's point of view.
KingSpoom
02-08-2005, 12:25 AM
It seems like the united states citizenry has become too reasonable, just like the people on Earth in Endless Waltz. We don't revolt or anything. So, someone get some transports, a couple of mobile suits, and meet me at the bunker.
Yeah, democratic republic. We hire people that might represent what we want done, and then wonder why stuff goes wrong. It is a system that caves in upon itself eventually.
Alzar
02-08-2005, 12:29 AM
You said it Spoom. You said it.
(...What?)
John Mora
02-08-2005, 12:58 AM
It seems like the united states citizenry has become too reasonable, just like the people on Earth in Endless Waltz.
Compare real life to Gundam Wing again, and my head will explode in outrage.
Kind of like Hiro in Gundam Wing Zeta right?
The Toecutter
02-08-2005, 01:03 AM
Because someone has to say it eventually: we aren't a democracy. We're a democratic republic. There's a difference.
A democratic republic would assume that our leaders represented the will of the people.
Any sociologist can tell you that this country does not do such. Our (s)elected officials are more or less chosen by money.
A more accurate term would be oligarchy.
America does indeed compare to the former USSR, but is not quite as bad yet.
America today has a higher incarceration rate than did the USSR in the 80s.
America also has a secret police force known as "Homeland Security" compared to the KGB
America wastes about half its budget on useless programs for weapons, subsidies to friendlies, and taking over other countries
If you're poor, in America that often means the military will be your career. Same in the former USSR
Many more similarities. Unlike the former USSR, this country has yet to kill all those it deems dissenters or to throw all of such in prison
We are headed down that path. Two sides of the same coin, government oppression and corporate oppression. I say away with both big government and big business, as they just keep propping each other up in an effort to consolodate power.
John Mora
02-08-2005, 01:04 AM
A democratic republic would assume that our leaders represented the will of the people.
Any sociologist can tell you that this country does not do such. Our (s)elected officials are more or less chosen by money.
A more accurate term would be oligarchy.
If you wanna get all pessimistic, sure.
The Toecutter
02-08-2005, 01:05 AM
I could go so far as to call it a corporate police state, if you think oligarchy is pessimistic.
Sejon
02-08-2005, 01:10 AM
I'm not sure running a "true democracy" (technically it wasn't true in the strictest sense, as women held no political sway, obviously) was fruitful in the long run for the Greeks. Not sure how their system was in times of urgency (e.g. war), where I'd imagine a democratic government wouldn't be particularly effective.
If I recall, one of the main reasons why it was workable was because Athenian citizens had slaves, which afforded them free time to focus on political matters.
Who can know with absolute certainty whether it's a viable form of government without it being attempted? Admittedly, if I was asked whether or not it was worth a shot, I wouldn't be able to answer...communication has improved drastically since the time of ancient Greece, what with the Internet, television, radio, newspaper, etc., so that might prove beneficial for such a government, but, hell, I'm no political scientist. And I don't want to be one...
I agree, though, that it's stupid how people hail governments as "democracies" when they aren't. There is still a very glaring distinction between a democracy and a republic.
archerarmored
02-08-2005, 12:50 PM
America will turn in to the USSR when we revolt against our representatives.
Sampson
02-08-2005, 06:09 PM
True democracy is more flawed than a republic. The founding fathers themselves saw this.
In true democracy the majority rules. On any issue. If this was the case, then blacks might've been wiped out in the 50's, and gays would have next to no rights right now. True democracy leaves absolutly no protection for the minority. The most often cited example for this is Socrates execution--he was forced to drink Hemlock (poison) because of his personal opinions. A constituationaly-safe guarded democracy (say, setting limits on what the majority can rule on) might be better than our republic right now, but with a mostly uneducated/indifferent public, and with simply too large of a population to make a true democracy work, a republic is the next best thing.
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