the Liberty Dollar raid

[Kire]

If you hven't heard, the bank sellng the Liberty Dollar, which is a currency (basically exchanging money for gold value) was seized by the FBI. I listened to a show of Libertarians crying their eyes out, and I also read this:

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...ized/#comments

Interesting spin on the whole thing, but it did kinda sound like there was really nothing wrong w/ what the business was doing...they'd been doing it w/ all the papers filled out for 9 YEARS. So why now? And what do you think? Were they in their right to do this (being the FBI)?

[goldgecko4]

Re: the Liberty Dollar raid

So, basically, these guys were exchanging cash for an equitable amount in gold? That happens all the time. The only difference here is that the gold was pressed into the shape of a coin, and that a value was assigned to each coin, making it, in the FBI's view, illegal. Doesn't sound right to me. There was definitely no need for a raid, maybe an injunction to have them stop printing faces and values on the coins if it was really going to be a problem, but it's not like anyone was going to go into a 7-11 and try to spend it. Just the government over-reacting, again.

[Wavelength]

Re: the Liberty Dollar raid

I think it's terrible that the government had to go and launch a raid here. They should apologize, unfreeze the accounts, give back everything, and keep their stupid noses out of private matters next time. Fat chance of that, though.

At the same time, any business that accepted this when it isn't backed by the full faith of the government, is just a hair short of moronic.

I guess people could use this in their private matters to hedge against currency volatility, but then, why not just participate in Foreign Exchange or simple Commodities? I read a little about the Liberty Dollar at Wiki (since I haven't heard of it before except in passing), and I'm completely confused as to why anyone would want one.

Finally, I got a kick out of them minting Ron Paul's face into the coins.

[The_Real_Crunk]

Re: the Liberty Dollar raid

Yeah, but if they do a raids, they get to ship off all the gold to their store houses and claim it for the government.

[highwind]

Re: the Liberty Dollar raid

they're doing it now because people are starting to become more and more aware of the horrible things the federal reserve is doing to our economy not only domestically but against foreign markets as well.

[Ωbright]

Re: the Liberty Dollar raid

The gold standard was removed decades ago, and it became illegal at that time to keep gold in the form of currency. Most people didn't have the means to melt down their gold, so many people just handed over what gold coins they had (during the depression, even), to avoid INSANELY harsh penalties.

This was done to ensure power to the PRIVATE, centralized bank, which wanted to have the sole power to increase or decrease the value of the dollar simply by destroying bills/coins, or making more.

If civil libertarians are crying their eyes out over this, then I'm right there with them, and Jefferson and Franklin are turning in their graves.

I want a Ron Paul dollar, dammit. Seriously...I would wear it on a chain around my neck.

[goldgecko4]

Re: the Liberty Dollar raid

I don't know about that... but by the time i retire, I could get a house in Boca for what it would fetch on eBay.

[Ωbright]

Re: the Liberty Dollar raid

Yeah, I still haven't formed a concrete opinion on Ron Paul. I'd feel this way even if it was a Pee Wee Herman dollar as long as it was spitting in the face of the federal reserve.

[highwind]

Re: the Liberty Dollar raid

a pee wee herman dollar would be awesome regardless.

[JPS]

Re: the Liberty Dollar raid

Its not the fact that they printed it thats illegal, its the fact that they released it with all intentions of having it circulate like U.S. currency to get Ron Pauls face all over the place.

When you buy something with a quarter, youre getting something for the face value of the coin, not what the coin is worth, instead, here, retailers are selling stuff to consumers for what the coin is worth, not what the face value is, which throws exchange rates off.

This is EXACTLY like me going out and buying a bunch of glass ornaments or something for $1 each then turning around and going to wal-mart and buying a cd with 15 glass ornaments, this is EXACTLY what these people are doing, except their way is a bit more illegal and fraudulent, since they are putting it into circulation and molding them in the likeness of a coin.

Does anyone get what is illegal about this? none of the people that commented on it in the article did...I think the federal government has every right to get involved when this can impact millions of people eventually.

[Perversion]

Re: the Liberty Dollar raid

This is EXACTLY like me going out and buying a bunch of glass ornaments or something for $1 each then turning around and going to wal-mart and buying a cd with 15 glass ornaments

You'd have to break little chunks of the ornaments off to cover tax.

[Karr Lord of Chaos]

Re: the Liberty Dollar raid

this is quite interesting becuase if i became rich i was going to store my wealth in the form of gold coinage rather then in banks.

the government, as always, seams to do idiotic things and making a quick buck seams to be the motivation behind this. the business was going on for a long time and a court proceeding was already in progress so why not wait till a resolution was made then?

the freedom of the states is becoming more of a past dream then a herald reality. gold is the prime currency of safety and stability, the production of coinage in gold (without price markings on the coin) shouldnt be illegal. gold itself sets the value of its own coin, not the numbers written on the coin. the coin would sell for whatever its weight to value would be, so i still cant see a problem.

shouldnt the court deciding on the case be the one to say halt production until the mater is resolved? after all that is why this went to the court, so yet again no reason to seize.

[Wavelength]

Re: the Liberty Dollar raid

Its not the fact that they printed it thats illegal, its the fact that they released it with all intentions of having it circulate like U.S. currency to get Ron Pauls face all over the place.

When you buy something with a quarter, youre getting something for the face value of the coin, not what the coin is worth, instead, here, retailers are selling stuff to consumers for what the coin is worth, not what the face value is, which throws exchange rates off.

This is EXACTLY like me going out and buying a bunch of glass ornaments or something for $1 each then turning around and going to wal-mart and buying a cd with 15 glass ornaments, this is EXACTLY what these people are doing, except their way is a bit more illegal and fraudulent, since they are putting it into circulation and molding them in the likeness of a coin.

Does anyone get what is illegal about this? none of the people that commented on it in the article did...I think the federal government has every right to get involved when this can impact millions of people eventually.

Wal-Mart wouldn't accept the glass ornaments, though. No one would have any reason to accept this currency--it's like regular currency except that it is not backed by our government's full faith and credit--and therefore, inferior to it.

Assuming people use a shred of common sense, the coins will only act as ways to store value--not as a way to create value or otherwise alter the money supply.

I categorically don't see what should be illegal about this. Perhaps my view of the subject is blurred--I still don't see why the coins are in circulation in the first place, aside from making a political point (as Obi says, "sticking it to the Fed"). Can anyone who really knows about the topic explain it better?

[Karr Lord of Chaos]

Re: the Liberty Dollar raid

Wal-Mart wouldn't accept the glass ornaments, though. No one would have any reason to accept this currency--it's like regular currency except that it is not backed by our government's full faith and credit--and therefore, inferior to it.

Assuming people use a shred of common sense, the coins will only act as ways to store value--not as a way to create value or otherwise alter the money supply.

I categorically don't see what should be illegal about this. Perhaps my view of the subject is blurred--I still don't see why the coins are in circulation in the first place, aside from making a political point (as Obi says, "sticking it to the Fed"). Can anyone who really knows about the topic explain it better?

its really the sale of gold to the common person in a form other then bars. no store would ever be able to accept the coin, and as mentioned it could only be a way to store its value (in case of a currency flop or other problems). its like having gold stocks, except that your stock is gold itself.

the issue is about making a coin which is the mints job. i guess if they make them into gold balls or something there wouldnt be a problem, but people like bullion so why not?

[Perversion]

Re: the Liberty Dollar raid

First, there is the Franklin Mint, that makes coins out of valuable metals, and are not accepted as legal tender. They (I'm assuming) are not part of the Federal Reserve, but it's perfectly okay for them to do it. Also, a way to hoard gold? We DO have things like jewelry, you realize.