Reducing Debt vs. Domestic Spending

[hitogoroshi]

Eliminating United States government budget deficits should be prioritized over increasing
domestic spending. Agree or disagree?
What do you think is more important for the US? Please cite sources if possible. I'm using you guys to help me out for debate class, cause you're smarter than the competition xP. So semi-serious responses please. I don't mind if you crack jokes, but Ronald and me isn't an appropriate rebuttal xD

[Karr Lord of Chaos]

Re: Reducing Debt vs. Domestic Spending

all seriousness concerned i think they need to do whatever they can to rebuild their economy and economic stability. the worse the economy gets the more difficult it will be to clear the debt. with the dollar dropping on the us side the more expensive it will be to remove the debt. domestic spending is the only way to go.

[IRC]

Re: Reducing Debt vs. Domestic Spending

You're embarrasing yourself Karr.

Domestic Spending would lead to an increased economy thereby boosting taxes which could be used to payoff debt. Or basically do the exact oppasite of what Nixon did in the 70s.

[Karr Lord of Chaos]

Re: Reducing Debt vs. Domestic Spending

historically when the government spends large amounts of money in their own country the people follow by also investing. lower interest rates also encourages spending as well as incentive giving. by spending domestically and limiting the amount spent abroad it keeps the money in the usa and helps bolster local businesses.

[Alex]

Re: Reducing Debt vs. Domestic Spending

I don't think you can be embarrassed when you can't see your faults.

[Karr Lord of Chaos]

Re: Reducing Debt vs. Domestic Spending

the fault was the use of the ronald and me pic. wanted to post it and get that out of the way (since he didnt want it in the first place).

[The Toecutter]

Re: Reducing Debt vs. Domestic Spending

Both debt AND spending need to be reduced.

1) Current consumption of resources in unsustainable. The U.S. consumes 25% of the world's energy but only has 4% of the world's population. The US military consumes more oil than the entire nation of Greece. We need to get off of oil; the technology is there and Americans would save lots of money.

2) The interest to pay on the National Debt is about $400 billion a year(fiscal year 2006). If the dollar were no longer fiat, it would be easier to freeze the interest provided the debt is actually paid down.

3) The defense budget is $440 billion a year, a quarter of which can't even be accounted for. We could cut it by 3/4 and still spend more on defense than any other nation in the world. Currently, the US spends about as much on defense as all other nations combined.

4) The Iraq War is about $90 billion a year, and Americans don't want it.

5) The Homeland Security Department recieves about $50 billion a year as it violates our civil liberties.

6) The War on Drugs costs about $40 billion a year and violates our civil liberties while providing the profit motive needed for organized crime to thrive.

7) Roughly 2 million Americans are currently in prison; the prison-industrial complex costs about $40 billion a year.

8) Corporate welfare costs U.S. taxpayers some $200 billion a year according to Public Citizen.


Most of our discretionary spending is extraneous. We don't need it. It consumes precious resources while many in the third world starve. None of the above benefits the average American. It benefits America's power elite.


There is some overlap within the above figures, but it is very safe to say that we could probably be more safe than we are now(by not exacerbating the creation of terrorists) AND reduce the federal budget some $800 billion/year without cutting into any social programs by eliminating as much of the extraneous spending above as is feasible.

Only problem is, the top 1% want lots of economic growth and which since the 1970s, has almost exclusively been benefiting them. Inflation adjusted economic productivity per capita has about doubled since 1970, yet inflation adjusted wages are still declining.



Something is very, very rotten with regard to America's domestic and foreign policy...

[Seraph]

Re: Reducing Debt vs. Domestic Spending

Quick! someone call Michael Moore!

[hitogoroshi]

Re: Reducing Debt vs. Domestic Spending

Most of our discretionary spending is extraneous.

Oh you can be sure I'm gonna abuse the hell out of that quote. xD

[Karr Lord of Chaos]

Re: Reducing Debt vs. Domestic Spending

how much is the usa in debt?

you cant cut all those things you mentioned terr, stuff like prison is needed. perhaps the spending is excessive on some things but alot of it is justified.

[The Toecutter]

Re: Reducing Debt vs. Domestic Spending

Prison might be needed, yes, but the amount of spending that goes into it and the amount of prisoners held is not.

Most of that money spent isn't paying to house the prisoners anyhow; it's going to the profit margins of contractors.


IIRC, the U.S. is about $9.1 trillion in debt.

[hitogoroshi]

Re: Reducing Debt vs. Domestic Spending

Actually the prison system is failing because the focus has switched from rehabilition to confinment in many prisons. But I can't offer a counterplan so that's out.

[The Toecutter]

Re: Reducing Debt vs. Domestic Spending

Not only confinement, but also cheap labor. U.S. taxpayers pay to house the prisoners, but private contractors profit from the cheap labor provided.

A criminal justice professor I knew was imprisoned for heroin possession decades ago. The prisoners were forced to work for the equivalent of pennies per hour, and when they decided to organize a non-violent strike to improve their wages, three of them were shot and the media never reported the real story.

I have copies of articles recounting this guy's experience; I may have to copy one or more of them by hand and post them here so you guys know what really goes on in many of this country's prisons. He's seen people tied down by gaurds and beaten, mentally ill prisoners denied medication they needed to function, sexual harassment of prisoners by prison staff, torture... horrifying stuff.


Abu Ghraib is in our own back yard and has been there for decades.

[Karr Lord of Chaos]

Re: Reducing Debt vs. Domestic Spending

if perhaps the prison system was more geared towards denying the benefits of freedom then perhaps people would be less inclined to go to jail. right now alot of the stuff they offer is better then i have access to. money could definably be saved, perhaps jail time lessoned if it was more of a life waster. but i rather support an option that has a chance to rehabilitate rather then chain people like china.

the usa definably is too dependent on their war and war related things and money could be saved there forsure. cutting welfare is not an option but getting jobs for people who need them should be.

guantonimo or however its spelt is a slap in the face to every american, democracy, and the world itself.

[IRC]

Re: Reducing Debt vs. Domestic Spending

That's just throwing gas on the fire Karr. The underlying issue is poverty. Do something to alleviate poverty and you won't have people needing to sell drugs to get by.