Japanese mythology v.s. European

[Seraph]

It seems to me that most (not all) Japanese rpg's released in north America are based on European mythology, rather than their own. Are the games released in Japan drastically different from the ones here, or do they maintain the same plots/settings etc. as our versions?

If not, is it the north American companies that change the games to suit our tastes?

[Bon]

Re: Japanese mythology v.s. European

It seems to me that most (not all) Japanese rpg's released in north America are based on European mythology, rather than their own. Are the games released in Japan drastically different from the ones here, or do they maintain the same plots/settings etc. as our versions?

If not, is it the north American companies that change the games to suit our tastes?

I'm not all that big on the mythology thing, but I do know that North America companies tweek the dialogue in most, if not all RPG's because of the differentials in pop culture, etc (basically, it just won't translate in our society, so we substitute). Lunar: Silver Star does this a lot.

[Goufunaki]

Re: Japanese mythology v.s. European

Pickle? I thought you said baseball cards?

[Seraph]

Re: Japanese mythology v.s. European

I meant like, weapons, monsters, classes, deities etc.

although there is indeed Japanese elements in these areas, they seem to take a back seat to others. Samurai seem to be less cool than Knight's in shinning armor for example.

Obviously they would have to change the dialogue to some degree to breech the language barrier.

This is just my opinion.

[IRC]

Re: Japanese mythology v.s. European

Yeah, cause Final Fantasy VII wasn't based on Japanese mythology at all.

[Seraph]

Re: Japanese mythology v.s. European

Yeah, cause Final Fantasy VII wasn't based on Japanese mythology at all.

Not exactly what I'm saying... let me try again..

Why have names like sephiroth and cloud, when you could have miyamoto or sasaki?

Why dudes with spikey hair and fashionable clothes, when you could have dudes with kabuto's and doumaru's?

[marcus]

Re: Japanese mythology v.s. European

No, you have a point. While there are some references to Asian mythology in Japanese games, it is mostly western religion and culture that dominates the back story. Heck, western developers are more fascinated with eastern culture than anything else. Just look at Jade Empire or Avatar the Last Airbender who's universe is heavily rooted in that stuff.

Square themselves seem to be Norse whores. Look at the mana series and you can instantly see comparisons with Yggdrasil the life tree, Odin the all-father (except in this case it's a woman), spears tend to be the best weapon (and there's usually a spear named Gugnir), and a lot of weapons, locations, and items are named after Norse names like Ragnarok, Nifleheim (Nibleheim in english), slepneir, spatha, etc. Aerith is from Judaism I think and even Sephiroth himself is based off a heavenly Judaist figures... 10 Sephirot's or something like that... contemplation, surrender, weakness... ugh, I dabbled in this stuff a long time ago so don't take my word for it. My memory sucks.

Valkyrie Profile was one huge reference to Norse mythology although it took a lot of liberties with the material (Queen Hel? Who??). Final Fantasy Tactics was pretty much 100% Christian mythology with all the zodiac monsters named after demons like Belias (Velius), Mephisto, Baphomet, etc. Yuna had a weapon called Nirvana, EVERY Final Fantasy game has a weapon or move called Seventh Heaven (there are 7 heavens in the christian religion), among other things I'm forgetting.

Even Megami Tensei is heavily rooted in judeo-christian and pagan religion and the demon designs are straight from the mind of Aleister Crowley. The Mother series is pretty much AMERICA THE VIDEOGAME and Dragon Quest also has a lot of Christian religious views with the design of the rosaries and the belief in only God.

So yeah... even games like Musashi and Dynasty Warriors are less "Asian" then they should be. I've yet to see an anime, even Ninja scroll, that didn't have some sort of heavy western theme to it. The only anime I've seen where Japanese people actually look JAPANESE is Tekkon Kinkreet or Ping Pong Club. It's like Japan doesn't like the idea that they're basing their work off themselves or something, but I'm making a huge generality here.

As far as dialog goes, they change the pop culture references. Some companies like Atlus and games like Katamari or anime like Super Milk Chan keep everything the same so some dialog like puns and stuff come off as being "weird" to us but there are a lot of video game "purists" now who complain a lot when things are changed so it's pretty rare now.

[Karr Lord of Chaos]

Re: Japanese mythology v.s. European

our cultures are so different that if you took a game from one and directly ported it to another culture it may not come off as a great hit. some of this is because translated words and phrases dont make sense or dont have the same impact, some is becuase different cultures view different subjects differently, and even what is a success in one place is a total bomb in another - environment.

games themselves different greatly as each is based on something different or something old redone in a different way. why shouldnt a game be tailored to fit the audience as well? if tweaking the story to have it relate to a western audience increases sales then they should change it. id much rather have a "different" game that makes sense to me then have a "purist" game where i dont have a damn clue what was intended.

names are more open to debate but if you have a total japanese name on a very non japanese character then it looks rather out of place. even with names that have historic significance if the person doesnt fit the right criteria for a name of that culture then it just dont work. im a very white person so for me to have a rastafarian name would be funny and would lose all seriousness of the intended reference.

[Seraph]

Re: Japanese mythology v.s. European

I'm not saying that the games should be unchanged or kept pure.

I am curious as to why the Japanese have what appears to be more of an interest in western/European themes for their RPG's (not making a reference to any other media) than their own culture, which is older and richer in many aspects.

I love Norse mythology. Do all Japanese people love Norse mythology?

Does DQ8 have the same Christian over-tunes like Marcus pointed out? (I am not refering to pop culture translations, I understand this concept). Or is the games structure different in this aspect in the Japanese release?

I think some things do sound silly with a direct translation, and one of the reasons I don't like anime is because I just don't get it.

I am just surprised that so many rpg's have more of a Euro/dark ages feel to them.

If I am totally off base, I humbly retract my statements.

[Karr Lord of Chaos]

Re: Japanese mythology v.s. European

what are you basing this on? if your basing it purely on what gets ported over here then of course your not going to see alot of japan styled games based on their own culture since it generally wont sell well here. money is always the bottom line so if a game is going to sell better because more people have an interest in western myths then they are going to do that. also maybe that the myths of western culture are more well known and larger in variety. again note that what you label as western is actually not. each religion mentioned so far has come from a variety of cultures, each set of mythologies have come from different places, so it really isnt just a love affair with our culture.

perhaps this love for dark/euro is the one element both our cultures have which means they can market this in both countries with few changes and probably higher sucess.

[Seraph]

Re: Japanese mythology v.s. European

Are the games released in Japan drastically different from the ones here, or do they maintain the same plots/settings etc. as our versions?

If not, is it the north American companies that change the games to suit our tastes?

This is what I asked to begin with. And I say western because OUR (westerners) primary history is European.

I have not played any games released ONLY in Japan, so thats why I asked my questions. I also never claimed any facts, just my opinions based on what I have seen personally.

I am not attacking Japanese people or their tastes. I am curious is all.

I agree about money being a factor.

[Karr Lord of Chaos]

Re: Japanese mythology v.s. European

just a debate thats all.

overall the games arnt much different, but this will change from game to game and even company to company. japan is varies just as much as we are and have their cultural games just like we have ours. i think someone who has lived in japan would be better to speak on this topic.

[IRC]

Re: Japanese mythology v.s. European

It's because the Japanese don't have a society heavily engrained in the Judeo-Christian culture. To them Jesus is just a myth. So to have Japanese developers crucify Chu Chu is like you or me getting a kanji tattoo. Why do we do it? Because it's exotic and different than from what we normaly see.

Couple that the popularity of anything western in Japan and the fact that a lot of fantasy incorporates things from mythology and you've got your Cloud and Sephiroth. And it's not like they don't utilize their own stuff in games. The Tanooki suit in Mario 3 is the most prominent example that comes to mind.

[Karr Lord of Chaos]

Re: Japanese mythology v.s. European

if you cant say it like hallmark, then say it like irc.

[IRC]

Re: Japanese mythology v.s. European

I doubt Hallmark has a Christmas card of a crucified Santa.