battle system question

[Lord_Mofop]

i know alot about how rpg maker 1 works, but there are a few things i dont know.

as of right now, i dont have the game with me. im letting a friend of mine borrow it, and he lives quite some distance away from me. i will be getting it back somewhat soon, but until then im messing around with ideas and plots.



i do know that i want a battle system where you see your enemies outside of the battle. i've never actually tried it before, but from what i know of the game, it would seem simple.

there's just a few questions i have to ask about it.


im assuming youd make an enemy graphic.


page 1

activate ----> touch
movement --> follow/hide (depending on the situation)

some sort of screen effect to shift into battle
battle (make it a 3-way % switch, making the monsters more random)
event status flashing
sound effect
change event graphic to nothing
unable to execute < or > activate a switch



i guess my first question would be, would it be more effective to make it unable to execute, that way if the player left the area and revisited it, you can rechallenge the monster, or to make a switch activate to a new page with no graphic, and then when the player leaves the area, turn off the switch.

im not to familiar with how unable to execute works. from what i remember, back before i knew anything about switches, i used it only to be disappointed when the event would reoccur if i revisited the area.

logically i'd assume that leaving the event as unable to execute would save more memory, but i would like a second opinion.


another aspect i'm kind of concerned about is the type of movement. if i set it to follow, i realize the monster will follow the party, but when i messed around with this before, the monster wont touch me to engage the battle, i have to touch it. is there something im doing wrong or an alternative to this?

and if i remember right, there is no way to run from event battles. is there anyway around this?


lastly i debated on adding a blue magic system to my game. i figure it would be easy, but i just want a second opinion about this.


first id make the magic, lets say for example.. flamethrower. it does decent fire damage.

id make a monster, lets say salamander for this example, and teach it that magic. id make an event graphic such as a red dragon.

then i'll have a character that learns blue magic.


itd go something like this:

page 1

activate ----> touch
movement --> follow/hide (depending on the situation)

some sort of screen effect to shift into battle
battle (make it a 3-way % switch, making the monsters more random)
event status flashing
sound effect
change event graphic to nothing
unable to execute < or > activate a switch



page 2

page conditions:
(blue maic user) in party

activate ----> touch
movement --> follow/hide (depending on the situation)

some sort of screen effect to shift into battle
battle (3-way % switch with a salamander in each possible monster party)
event status flashing
sound effect
change event graphic to nothing
message: blue mage learned flamethrower
add magic: flamethrower
switch: 001 on
unable to execute < or > activate a switch



Page 3

page conditions:
switch 001 on

activate ----> touch
movement --> follow/hide (depending on the situation)

some sort of screen effect to shift into battle
battle (make it a 3-way % switch, making the monsters more random)
event status flashing
sound effect
change event graphic to nothing
unable to execute < or > activate a switch


i'd imagine that's how'd it work out, but i'm not exactly sure if it's solid. again, i'd just like a professional's opinion on this.


and lastly, i've read through a few subjects and i find a reoccuring term that i dont understand. it's CBS, something battle system? translation please..

[Draygone]

Unable to Execute makes the event unexecutable (as in will not do anything beyond wander) until you leave the map using Move Location, or if you save the game, quit, and load it back up. It actually saves memory to use the command for battle encounters, as using it only takes up 1 memory while having another page with a switch will take 9. To me, it doesn't matter if they reappear after leaving the room.

Unfortunately, there is no way to make an event activate when it touches you. Kinda a bummer, but there is still a chance the player will wind up accidentally touching the monster because the monster suddenly stepped in front of the player.

You can't run from event battles. Likewise, RPG Maker's "scan" spell (Enemy's HP) doesn't work in event battles, either.

I think your blue mage event is about right. But here's a memory-saving alternative. Since your first and third pages are essentially the same thing, get rid of the third page. On the second page (the blue mage page), along with the condition that the blue mage is in the party, also add the condition that the "learned magic" switch is off. This way, though the page will activate the first time when you have the mage, it will not activate once that switch is no longer off.

Oh, right. CBS stands for Custom Battle System.

[Lord_Mofop]

i got the game back from my friends..

i have to ask, does anyone even use the sound effects for messages or leveling?

i have a hard time making dialogue because without some sort of sound it makes the dialogue seem more bland and uninteresting, but i cant seem to find a non-annoying simple sound for messages.

i know no one in their right mind would use collision sounds :p

[facts]

BONK! No, I don't use collision sounds.

I do use a level up sound often, but I usually change it to something besides people cheering. I agree there are very few good sounds that you can use for messages, which is why I tend not to worry about them.

Although I thought that there was a simple bloop sound that sounds like a message window opening, maybe not.

[Draygone]

Generally I don't use sounds for messages. They just prove distracting. I do use a sound effect for level-ups, though. Can't remember which one specifically. It's the one right before or right after the ding sound effect that you hear when you win an item after battle. Whichever it is that sounds more like a level-up sound.

I did use a collision sound effect. I tried to use the least distracting one, but I was told even it was annoying, so I took it out. I think I originally intended to have a puzzle that used the collision sound, but that's not likely going to happen now.

Jester's Hunt is an exception, though. I used both the collision and message sound effects. But it was supposed to be a goofy game, so I could get away with it.

[Lord_Mofop]

this weird thing happens randomly when i turn on the game.

every now and then when i fire up rpgm 1, it'll show the first logo, then it will show a knight on a horse or something, and it sounds like it's saying, "ascheek" with a enthusiastic asian voice.

after that, it goes to a black screen, and it doesnt load the game.

is this just my game, or does this happen to others?

[facts]

It happens to everyone's game, it was used in the Japanese version, but they forgot to take it out and it causes the game to freeze. Just reboot the game and hope it doesn't happen again.

[Draygone]

And for the record, it says Ascii. And it doesn't hurt your game or console. And if I remember right, you can continue without freezing if you press X before it fades out.

[Karr Lord of Chaos]

jup very true, ive defeated it a few times by clicking x.

as for custom battles i choose to use 10 revolving switches, one switch per encounter in a dungeon series. this way players can explore an area freely without having to worry about bumping into enemies. most people hate enemies with a passion so i kept the number to a minimum and did everything i could to make them less tedious and annoying while not being entirely irrelevant. since i have used custom battles ive also made it impossible to die to reduce the wasted time. instead it takes a penalty for dieing, tps you some place near the beginning of the dungeon and allows you to continue.

msg and collision sounds are the devil and should be exercised from all games. level up sounds should be relatively tame too, not like you get alot of choice.

[orius]

I've seen several games where there were visible enemy graphics (the only two I remember are Ebony Kismet and Hero's Quest), and I'm working on a demo that uses visible enemies as well.


activate ----> touch
movement --> follow/hide (depending on the situation)

some sort of screen effect to shift into battle
battle (make it a 3-way % switch, making the monsters more random)
event status flashing
sound effect
change event graphic to nothing
unable to execute < or > activate a switch

That's pretty much the way I have it set up, except no sound effects or screen effects (the game just starts the battle normally). I used 3-ways on some battles to to mix things up as well. Be careful if you make things complicated; I tried a system that stacked 3 way choices under a single 3 ways choice for 9 different possibilities. That's not easy to playtest, and easy to slip up with a scripting error. Like Karr said, you can also set up a two way choice as well with win/lose if you don't want TPKs.

The Unable to Execute is a good option if you want the enemies to respawn. If you don't want them to respawn and they're not bosses or anything, you could probably use a treasure event.

You can't run from event battles. Likewise, RPG Maker's "scan" spell (Enemy's HP) doesn't work in event battles, either.

I think there might be some other limitations, but I'm not sure what. But event battles can't be escaped, nor does the Enemy HP magic work, since battle events were generally intended for boss or other important story battles.

Enemy movement can be done in different ways. Close Up is for enemies that actively hunt the party, and Away or something like that is for coawrdly enemies that run away. Then there's random for stuff that just shambles around aimlessly, and you can have enemies that walk back and forth or up and down in a line (and is there a circular path?). Unfortunately, the player will have to touch the monsters to fight, but if you want to be tricky you can just not use graphics at all for the events and let the player blunder into "invisible" enemies.

[orius]

And sounds: collisions are a dumb holdover from the early DQ games where you'd hear a thump when you'd walk into something. Totally annoying and unnecessary. I keep the default message sound I think, I don't notice it. I also keep the default level sound, which is supposed to be a bunch of people cheering, since that's one of the few sounds that works for leveling up.

[Draygone]

The Unable to Execute is a good option if you want the enemies to respawn. If you don't want them to respawn and they're not bosses or anything, you could probably use a treasure event.
Of important note, there is a limit to how many Treasure Events you can use on a single scenario data. I forget the exact amount, but I think it's 120. They also reset when you move to a new scenario, which is only bad when they're actually used for treasures.
Unfortunately, the player will have to touch the monsters to fight, but if you want to be tricky you can just not use graphics at all for the events and let the player blunder into "invisible" enemies.
Yeah, but that's actually even worse, because then they're like random battles, except you can never run from them. Having to bump into enemies isn't all bad, though. Sometimes those random movers like to suddenly step in front of the player, leaving to accidental bumping. :)

Also, there is no circle movement.

[orius]

Of important note, there is a limit to how many Treasure Events you can use on a single scenario data. I forget the exact amount, but I think it's 120. They also reset when you move to a new scenario, which is only bad when they're actually used for treasures.

Didn't know there was a limitation.

I know about the resetting bit, because there was a game I played at one time that when back and forth between two scenarios, and it was possible to intentionally go between the two of them to farm chests. If multiple scenarios are set up in a way that there is no returning, it's not a big deal.

Yeah, but that's actually even worse, because then they're like random battles, except you can never run from them. Having to bump into enemies isn't all bad, though. Sometimes those random movers like to suddenly step in front of the player, leaving to accidental bumping. :)

Also, there is no circle movement.

That's why I said it's "tricky". Invisible enemies like that is a tool for the evil game designer. :lol :evil :lol It really all depends on how difficult you want to make it for the player.

[Lord_Mofop]

I didn't want to start a new thread so I'm just necroing this one for my RPGM questions.

Of important note, there is a limit to how many Treasure Events you can use on a single scenario data. I forget the exact amount, but I think it's 120. They also reset when you move to a new scenario, which is only bad when they're actually used for treasures.

I've never experimented with the Scenario Change option before. I'm not sure if I understand how it works.

Does it carry your switches over? Also, would I have to go back and reprogram all of the entrances for my dungeons and towns? Or do those carry over as well?


I'm also having some problems with the Luck stat. I wanted two physical "Damage Dealers", one that would dual-wield and do sustained damage, and one that would attack once but have a high crit rating for more burst damage.

I tested out some battles with the character I wanted with high crit having +9999 Luck. Out of 18 attacks, he only had 2 crits. This was very underwhelming from what I wanted originally. And also due to his high Luck, his Evasion is too much. Nothing is hitting him except for enemy spells.

[Karr Lord of Chaos]

the scenario change will transfer all character stuff - items, levels, switches - anything that the character will have on their person or is inside their menu. the scenario data is blank when you swap it over so you have to fill it up. keep in mind that the spot you switched data is the spot you must keep the same when the new data loads up.

as for the luck stat, the increase in luck only marginally increases your chance to critical hit. you cant have your character critical hit very often, so its better to keep this stat higher then normal, but not at max. twice in 14 hits is pretty good. as the game progresses this value will go down as monster stats increase.

[Draygone]

Actually, the Luck stat doesn't affect critical hit rate, it affects evasion. You're really better off renaming it to "evade" or something like that. Far as I know, there isn't anything that affects critical hit rate for party members. Heck, it's entirely possible to crit-hit for 0 damage.

The scenario change is pretty much like when you change disks in PS1 RPGs like Final Fantasy. It continues with all your stuff, there's just different event data. The easiest thing to do is simply copy the scenario card you just finished, rename the copy to "scenario 2" or whatever, and delete the events and pages that no longer matter. This also means you can re-use switches that were dedicated to events that already ended. Yes, switch data does carry over, so whichever ones you'll want to re-use need to be turned off at the start of the scenario card.

[Karr Lord of Chaos]

oh wow, so it has no effect on the crit rate? how interesting. i thought agility was all part of the hit miss evade triangle? how the hell does everything work. its so damn vague that its hard to figure out.

[Draygone]

Admittedly, yes, some stats could've used better clarification. So allow me to clarify.

STR (strength): Attack power. Pretty obvious.
DEF (defense): Defense power. Again, pretty obvious.

One thing to keep in mind is the formula for physical damage: Half the attack power minus half the defense power. I think some people aren't aware of this, because occasionally I come across this piece of equipment with a defense of 2 and I'm like... Okay, so I lose one less HP when I get hit. So what?

Naturally, there's a slight randomizer, so damage is never exactly the same. Even when you're hitting for 0 damage, the randomizer might bless you with 1 or 2 damage.

Also, unless you do change otherwise, character (not monster) STR and DEF already start off at 10 points each, so whatever stats you add are on top of that base power.

STA (stamina) / HP (hit points): This is kinda confusing, because at first glance, they're the same thing. But STA is your max HP, and HP is your current amount. And like STR and DEF, character HP already starts off at 30 points.

INT (intelligence) / MP (magic points): INT is your max MP, and MP is your current amount.

AGI (agility): This is your "speed", or rather, this stat determines turn order. Basically it counts down from the highest character's/monster's speed to the lowest. If your speed is 50 and the monster's is 25, you're probably going to go first. Useful information, when you need to determine who's more likely to get a potion in before the enemy attacks.

Strangely, this is also affected by a randomizer. There have been times where a monster attacked first when my speed was slightly higher than the monster's.

Luck (um... luck): Like I said, this determines your evasion, and works in conjunction with AGI. If your Luck is higher than your attacker's AGI, the attack is more likely to miss. Interestingly, enemies don't have a Luck stat. Personally, I think this was a smart move on Enterbrain's part. I mean, do we really want to play a game somebody made play out like RPG Maker 3?

M.DEF (magic defense): Has nothing to do with damage from magic attacks. Rather, it affects your resistance to status attacks, like poison and silence. Not sure if it affects status drainers. Not sure how much it affects. Obviously, 9999 pretty much would mean total immunity. But where 50% immunity falls in, not entirely sure. Never really tested it. I do know that, on their own, certain status attacks are only sometimes effective, like I think death has a 30% chance of working (or was it failing) while poison works just about all the time.

R Attack / L Attack: the combined attack power of your base stats and equipment on whichever hand your weapon is. Status boosting spells and accessories affect both hands, weapons affect whatever hand is equipped. Only time both hands attack is if both hands hold a weapon.

Guard: the combined defense power of your base stats and equipment.

There's another stat that sometimes pops up underneath your HP and MP, called "CRS" or something like that. Sometimes it's there, sometimes it isn't. I'm not entirely sure what the stat does.

Magic GRD: This is the actual stat that determines defense against magic damage, based on a percentage (maxes out at 100%, so sorry, no elemental obsorbing). It's only affected by equipment that raises guard against the magic elements. Depending on whether you have elements turned on or off, it'll either be one stat, or a stat for every element.

EXP (experience) / Next Level: I hope I don't have to explain these. I could give an EXP chart, but there's other places you can find them. Just know that after level 22, all levels take the same amount of EXP to level up.

[Lord_Mofop]

Thanks Draygone for the clarification on stats. I knew most of them, like Magic Resistance, but I had no idea that Luck doesn't effect crit. That's nice to know because I wanted to make a ninja character that could dual wield. I was afraid of boosting his Luck because I thought he'd crit too much and be unbalanced, but I also wanted him to evade alot.


I think I've got the Change Scenario option down. It sounds like if I copy all of the NPCs, buildings, and all of that, that'll I'll be using up memory faster.

So it seems that Treasure Chests don't carry over, right? If so how do I get around that? Would I inevitably have to use switches for my treasure chests? Or would the player just have to pick up the chests during the scenario, and if they didn't, they lose them forever?

Also I heard about people going back and forth between scenarios and farming chests. Is there anyways I could prevent that?

[orius]

There's another stat that sometimes pops up underneath your HP and MP, called "CRS" or something like that. Sometimes it's there, sometimes it isn't. I'm not entirely sure what the stat does.

I think that means you have something cursed equipped. Possibly you might be talking about someting else.

I think I've got the Change Scenario option down. It sounds like if I copy all of the NPCs, buildings, and all of that, that'll I'll be using up memory faster.

So it seems that Treasure Chests don't carry over, right? If so how do I get around that? Would I inevitably have to use switches for my treasure chests? Or would the player just have to pick up the chests during the scenario, and if they didn't, they lose them forever?

Also I heard about people going back and forth between scenarios and farming chests. Is there anyways I could prevent that?

Depends on how you have the scenarios set up. If it's set up that the player goes from scenario 1 to scenario 2 with no return, then yes all the chests in the first scenario become missable. If you set the scenarios up so that the player can move back and forth between them, then the chests can be farmed, so you'll probably want to use switches to prevent it. You could also do a treasure system like FFXII or something where chests are supposed to respawn if you want the player to cross back and forth bewteen two scenarios. If you do that then you'll probably want to make minor treasures treasure events and treasure you want to keep limited based on switches.

[Draygone]

One interesthing thing about dual-weilding. Each hand is counted separately by the crit/miss randomizer. One hand could crit and the other hit normal. One could hit normal and the other miss. One could crit and the other miss. Sometimes, yes, both would crit or miss at the same time, but not often. So as far as crit-hitting goes, you won't have to worry about crit-hitting for 4x damage very often.

You do want to be careful about letting a character dual-weild, though. You don't want the character to be hitting too much more than a character using one weapon, so what you'll have to do is either have the weapons that will be dual-weilded have weaker power than normal weapons, or the character that dual-weilds will have to have a lower base attack stat than other characters.

Then again, maybe you do want to have the dual-weilder to be more powerful than other characters. It is your game, after all.

[Lord_Mofop]

Hmm.. I sort of like the idea of being able to miss treasure if you don't look for it. It sort of punishes the player for speeding through the game and not taking the time to explore.

You do want to be careful about letting a character dual-weild, though. You don't want the character to be hitting too much more than a character using one weapon, so what you'll have to do is either have the weapons that will be dual-weilded have weaker power than normal weapons, or the character that dual-weilds will have to have a lower base attack stat than other characters.

Then again, maybe you do want to have the dual-weilder to be more powerful than other characters. It is your game, after all.

I'm trying to go for a Samurai like character with some healing magic and support, and a Ninja character with some damage magic. I want them to be equally useful so it would come down to the characters' personal choice as to if he'd want one or the other, or both.

So I'm giving the Samurai character high STR / decent DEF and the Critical Hit Up ability. The ninja will have low STR / high Luck and the First Attack ability. The ninja is the one who will be dual wielding.

I don't want an overpowered dual wielding character. I'm having a hard time trying to keep him in balance with the other physical fighters. I think I'm going to do what you suggested and lower his weapon attack bonuses.

Out of curiosity, would you happen to know how the mechanics of the Critical Hit Up ability? Thanks!

[Draygone]

Oh yeah, I forgot about that ability. I'm not entirely sure, but I think it doubles the crit hit rate.

[Karr Lord of Chaos]

thats exclusive to monsters isnt it? it increases the chance for them to score a crit id wager.

[Lord_Mofop]

I was referring to the added effect given through the Skill title option. I knew it increased Critical Hit chance, I just didn't know how much.

[Karr Lord of Chaos]

oh, i forgot about that one. i imagine its going to be like the other skills where it randomly gives a critical hit; maybe it ignores the other normal parameters? the magic damage doubles activates so little that i assume its of the same stock.

[orius]

You do want to be careful about letting a character dual-weild, though. You don't want the character to be hitting too much more than a character using one weapon, so what you'll have to do is either have the weapons that will be dual-weilded have weaker power than normal weapons, or the character that dual-weilds will have to have a lower base attack stat than other characters.

Or you could balance things out by making shields a significant enough source of defense that it give the player a choice: dual wield and do more damage, but take more damage from monsters, or use a weapon and shield, doing less overall damage but also taking less damage. This might be a harder method of balancing things though.

[MRevelle83]

You could always rule out duel-wielding and take off the option to use L Hand or R Hand.

[orius]

There is that, but I hate the idea of the cursed item on the offhand because it essentially punishes the player for a programming flaw. If dual wielding was something that the game designer could turn on or off either globally or for specific characters, that would have been a good feature.

[Draygone]

I think MR actually was referring to the global option to turn off dual-weilding.

As for using a cursed item for characters that can't dual-weild, I don't see how it's a punishment to the player. How many commercial RPGs out there have some characters that dual-weild and others don't? Pretty sure they still show both hands, too.

[MRevelle83]

I was. I was referring to the option that avoids the need to use a cursed item.

The only reason to use a cursed item is if you want some characters to dual wield and others cannot. Since turning off L/R Hand negates it for all characters.

[Lord_Mofop]

So are ambushes and first attacks accounted for in a non-random battle system?

[Draygone]

Nope.

[Lord_Mofop]

Nope.

Hmm, that's a shame. I was going to give someone the First Attack skill, but seeing as this is the case there's no point.