Auto Use Question

[MagusMartovich]

Its been a while since I toyed with items, but I do remember that you could create an item that would revive a character upon death, or heal them up when they were like 50% dead (if I remember correctly) but my question is about if I can make an item hurt the enemies after a character dies/is 50% dead. I don't really have time to test it out myself, so I'm asking you! Thanks in advance!

[Ωbright]

Re: Auto Use Question

Nope. Unfortunately auto-use conditions only work for restorative items.

[JPS]

Re: Auto Use Question

can restorative items be only used on the party member thats dead or can it be used against any party/enemy?

[Ωbright]

Re: Auto Use Question

The only thing you can do that's even close to that is to make an item that heals everybody when the character carrying the item gets critical. Also you can revive the entire party when someone holding the item dies.

Here's something else kinda cool...you can make an item that heals everyone else in the party back to full when the person carrying the item dies!

[MagusMartovich]

Re: Auto Use Question

Being that someone else MAY have had the same idea as I did, is it possible to edge around the program (like the Equipment "cheat") to make an item that does damage upon the character holding that item dies?

Okay, I'm over that idea (cuz I'm quite sure the answer is still "No") so I have a question about damage. What kind of damage do items deal? If a character is immune to weapons and immune to magic and (equiped with an item) immune to skills, will said character still take damage accordingly, or will they take 0 damage as they are immune to all sources of damage?

Also, if a monster/character is immune to magic, will skills hurt/heal said monster/character? I seem to remember that there was a catch 22 in RM1 when making creatures that were "immune" to damage, as healing spells were also affected, if memory serves correctly...

[Ωbright]

Re: Auto Use Question

Being that someone else MAY have had the same idea as I did, is it possible to edge around the program (like the Equipment "cheat") to make an item that does damage upon the character holding that item dies?

I'm not saying it's impossible, but the reason why the equip cheat works is that equips do not automatically update their 'equip-able' list when changes are made outside of the item editor...and there's nothing like that when making a usable item. if you change something in the item editor, it updates all other aspects of that item automatically. I have so tried...

Okay, I'm over that idea (cuz I'm quite sure the answer is still "No") so I have a question about damage. What kind of damage do items deal? If a character is immune to weapons and immune to magic and (equiped with an item) immune to skills, will said character still take damage accordingly, or will they take 0 damage as they are immune to all sources of damage?

Ok, I just tested to be sure, and damaging items use MAGIC damage...they're basically spell scrolls. I was hoping it was NULL damage, but there you go. That means that if an enemy is immune to magic, then the damaging item will do 0 damage.

Also, if a monster/character is immune to magic, will skills hurt/heal said monster/character? I seem to remember that there was a catch 22 in RM1 when making creatures that were "immune" to damage, as healing spells were also affected, if memory serves correctly...

I don't think there's anything like that in 3...there's no bitset that can be set to 'absorb' any type of damage, or loophole like you mentioned. Damaging skills damage, and healing skills heal. The only difference is whether you're weak or strong to a type of damage.

Oh, and 'yes'...skills will still hurt a character who's immune to magic.

[MagusMartovich]

Re: Auto Use Question

Oh, and 'yes'...skills will still hurt a character who's immune to magic.

BOO-YAH! See, my original idea was to make a character who had next to no HP with an item that dealt TONS of damage to enemies when/if that character died. Problem: those items don't exist.

So, I moved my plans a bit and wondered about what the difference between skills/magic were. I know that skills=Magic Attack Base and magic=MABase + Weapon Adds... This made me wonder if being immune to skills was the same as immune to magic. Now that I know these aren't the same thing, I can create my physical/magic immune boss and still require the player (who up until this point left the chicken on defense, hiding in the back row) to now utilize the chicken as a brawler and make the (now) powerhouse members into support cast characters so as to keep the chicken alive! Mwa-ah-ha-ha!!!

[MagusMartovich]

Re: Auto Use Question

I'm Dblposting to notify Obright that he deserves added Reputation, but the Pav won't let me dole anymore of out to Obright at this time. Mad Props!

[Ωbright]

Re: Auto Use Question

I just realised that I totally misunderstood what you were saying in that last part, but if I helped, then that's great. And yup...there is 'skill-immunity', 'magic immunity', AND 'physical immunity', for direct attacks. Skills are based on P-ATT just like Magic is based on M-ATT, but it seems that the 3 things are treated seperately when you're dealing with things like immunities and 'barriers' (like 'skill barrier' or 'physical barrier').

[EDIT] Wait...skills are MAGIC based???
[EDIT 2] I just did some experiments...

Increasing a character's M-ATT makes their spells more powerful, but increasing a character's STR does NOT make a character's skills more powerful...and neither does increasing that character's M-ATT. Therefore it appears as though skills are not based on magic OR strength, but merely do as much null damage as you tell them to do in the editor, without regard to an enemies P/M-DEF. That kinda makes up for the fact that skills can miss, and the bonus that magic gets makes up for the mage's tendency to stay on the back lines where they can't attack directly.

[Wavelength]

Re: Auto Use Question

[EDIT] Wait...skills are MAGIC based???
[EDIT 2] I just did some experiments...

Increasing a character's M-ATT makes their spells more powerful, but increasing a character's STR does NOT make a character's skills more powerful...and neither does increasing that character's M-ATT. Therefore it appears as though skills are not based on magic OR strength, but merely do as much null damage as you tell them to do in the editor, without regard to an enemies P/M-DEF. That kinda makes up for the fact that skills can miss, and the bonus that magic gets makes up for the mage's tendency to stay on the back lines where they can't attack directly.

Edit 3: The battle system makes no sense whatsoever? :P

This is definitely an interesting find. Next chance I have I will test it extensively. I'm inclined to say that you're not completely right, as I have a "common" Skill shared by all characters that restores MP. I think I had to make it more powerful for the characters with lower ATK to get it to restore a similar amount no matter who was using it. (I suppose it could possibly, like you said, have to do with MDEF?) And furthermore, I know that it hasn't been perfectly consistent between uses by the same character, so there's something more at play here...

[MagusMartovich]

Re: Auto Use Question

I looked at the description in the character class screen and noted that "skills" were inherently less potent than "magic". I could have been wrong as to why they aren't "as good" or whatever, but I do know that they are less uber.

Either way, knowing that magic damage and skill damage are tracked differently still help in my on going quest to make an extremly horrid character who has no tangable use whatsoever during the entire game become, not only useful, but do 100% of the damage during the final (and therefore) most important battle of the game!

It also gives me a reason to (Almost) force the player of said game to access the menu and change the formation so that the chicken (who I gave "enrage" to) might stay alive for a good portion of the game, and may even gain a level or two! AND, you get to find the chicken in a bag! Its so funny, and it gives me a good reason to show off my (stolen) ability to put chickens (or puppies) into bags!

I love that trick, in case you couldn't tell...

[Ωbright]

Re: Auto Use Question

This is definitely an interesting find. Next chance I have I will test it extensively. I'm inclined to say that you're not completely right, as I have a "common" Skill shared by all characters that restores MP. I think I had to make it more powerful for the characters with lower ATK to get it to restore a similar amount no matter who was using it. (I suppose it could possibly, like you said, have to do with MDEF?) And furthermore, I know that it hasn't been perfectly consistent between uses by the same character, so there's something more at play here...

It seems to me that restoring spells, even though they are magic based, are treated more like skills. I gave Brogan 999 in M-ATT, but his 'Quantum Rain' spell still restored the exact same amount of damage (+ or - about 15 from the amount the spell was designed to restore) as it did before. That kinda sucks for Brogan, because his M-ATT is now almost useless. Also, it seems that the only way that skills/spell effectiveness is affected by a stat at ALL is if they are offensive magics. If you are having cases where the situation differs, then perhaps it is due to that +/-15 wobble? At small increments it can be more noticable, but if you're consistantly getting lower results from one character using one skill, then wobbling's not the problem. Perhaps a character with a very low LUCK will get the low-end healing more often? Hmm...maybe try setting all of the people you're testing on to the same LUCK? I honestly have no idea.

It would be kinda cool if restoring SKILLS were based on a STR, just like offensive MAGIC is based on MAG...maybe I should check. No, instead I think I'll run away. There's no way it's going to be like that...is there?.........No, there's not...................Oh ****, now I've got to look anyway.

I looked at the description in the character class screen and noted that "skills" were inherently less potent than "magic". I could have been wrong as to why they aren't "as good" or whatever, but I do know that they are less uber.

Well, if what I'm thinking is accurate, then this is caused by the skills not being based on a stat. In my first RM3 game, I went to great lengths to make sure that spells and skills were comparable at similar level, but after many playthroughs I was constantly shown that they weren't. As my mages leveled, and got better equipment, their (offensive) spells became more powerful...while my skill-users flounderend. Later on I realised the value of this though, when enemies with insanely high M-DEF started to emerge. The skills were doing less damage overall, but they were more reliable...if they hit Yeah...um *clears throat*...because the DEF of the enemies didn't seem to matter. I could be on crack or something...but that's what seems to be the case.

Either way, knowing that magic damage and skill damage are tracked differently still help in my on going quest to make an extremly horrid character who has no tangable use whatsoever during the entire game become, not only useful, but do 100% of the damage during the final (and therefore) most important battle of the game!

Can you switch him out? Well, even if he's deemed 'official item user' of the party, he can still serve a purpose. There are tons of games where there's one or two characters that I don't use very much, that are ultra useful in one way. Tink from Disgaea 2 comes to mind. If I was forced to have him in my party for long periods though...it might wear on me. Can you not make him special in some other way? Auto-run? Immune to status? Auto-revive? It all depends on if you can switch him out or not, I guess. All that aside, though...it's twisted. I like it.

It also gives me a reason to (Almost) force the player of said game to access the menu and change the formation so that the chicken (who I gave "enrage" to) might stay alive for a good portion of the game, and may even gain a level or two! AND, you get to find the chicken in a bag! Its so funny, and it gives me a good reason to show off my (stolen) ability to put chickens (or puppies) into bags!

I love that trick, in case you couldn't tell...

I LOVE it also. I used it for the stone carving events on the artist quest in tree of life, by putting stone statues inside of...stones. It worked, but having the 'bag falling' event animation reveal the chicken is too cool. I wish there was a 'shattering stone' event animation. Dammit.

[MagusMartovich]

Re: Auto Use Question

Yes... And yet... SOMEHOW, life goes on...

[Ωbright]

Re: Auto Use Question

[MagusMartovich]

Re: Auto Use Question

Don't take it sso hard, I was joking!