Recycling

[Kire]

The problem with the abundance of information we have these days is you don't know who to believe. To cut to the chase, I've seen multiple articles that say we should recycle everything, but others that have said that recyling aluminum is the only thing worth recycling, and that recycling plastic and paper is a waste of energy and actually causes more polution than if we just threw them away.

So, which is it? What are your thoughts? What are your sources? Inquiring minds want to know.

[Loki]

Re: Recycling

Recycling uses more energy to create the same item new, except in the case of aluminum. That's why with enough soda cans, you can make a little money, but not so with enough paper and bottles.

Landfills are designed to trap natural gas that is caused during decomposition, and use that gas to heat and power buildings.

Recycling wastes energy, landfills are a source of energy.

Seems pretty obvious to me.

[DarkwingChuck]

Re: Recycling

Capatin Planet told me to recycle. And I always do what gay superheros tell me to do.

[Jamos]

Re: Recycling

Captian Planet told me to save the environment or he'll ****ing kill me.

[jvrlopez]

Re: Recycling

Michael Moore doesn't recycle because he once followed the recycling truck from his house and said it went straight to a local landfill.

[Karr Lord of Chaos]

Re: Recycling

micheal more is an idiot. i wouldnt belive anything he says becuase he always has an ignorant view in every peice of document hes produced. his "reporting" of an issue is biased and untruthful. his facts are contrived and askewed in order to prove his point which is false or not entirely the full picture. he needs to leave the reporting of issues for qualified professions, not fanatical sensationalists like himself. i can take any fact out there and put any spin i want on it and prove it, but it doesnt make it factual or truthful.

theirs no purpose to a recycling truck going to the dump unless of course the recycling plant IS there, which is very likely. to my knowledge recycling companies are seperate entities which have profit in mind. to dump their load in the landfill would be very counter to this.

keep in mind that the purpose of recycling is to keep items out of the landfil, meaning to save space. alot of the stuff is a waste of effort but it keeps it from being stacked high and space as you know is at a premium. with time and demand technology gets better and is able to refine these wastes better and lest wastefuly.

ive always enjoyed recycling, but i prefer not to buy products that produce hanious amounts of waste for no particular reason.

[Loki]

Re: Recycling

micheal more is an idiot. i wouldnt belive anything he says becuase he always has an ignorant view in every peice of document hes produced. his "reporting" of an issue is biased and untruthful. his facts are contrived and askewed in order to prove his point which is false or not entirely the full picture. he needs to leave the reporting of issues for qualified professions, not fanatical sensationalists like himself. i can take any fact out there and put any spin i want on it and prove it, but it doesnt make it factual or truthful.

Moore has never claimed to be a reporter. He's trying to persuade you to see his side of things. He is not trying to be fair or show both sides of the issue. This doesn't make him ignorant.

keep in mind that the purpose of recycling is to keep items out of the landfil, meaning to save space. alot of the stuff is a waste of effort but it keeps it from being stacked high and space as you know is at a premium. with time and demand technology gets better and is able to refine these wastes better and lest wastefuly.

There's not a landfill space crisis. Landfills are holes in the ground, not big hills of trash. When they fill up they are paved over and turned into useable space for homes, parks, wildnerness preserves or any such thing.

[Karr Lord of Chaos]

Re: Recycling

Moore has never claimed to be a reporter. He's trying to persuade you to see his side of things. He is not trying to be fair or show both sides of the issue. This doesn't make him ignorant.


he doesnt need to claim to be anything, his work is that of a documentary producer, his stories are reporting. you can label him whatever title you wish but his style is that of a reporter, its what hes doing and even if he hasnt self labeled with this title, it still fits. by falsifying or covering up facts to prove his side as a ligitimate case makes his work ignorant of true facts and reality, exploiting the ignorance of the population is dangerous and foolish, and he ignorantly hurts the people he reports on. how does that not make him an ignorant person? perhaps its not nessisarily the right word, but his work is a sad blemish on society, and on the same level as the trash magazines that populate market checkouts. i have no like for people like him, they only poison peoples minds with sensationalistic crap.


There's not a landfill space crisis. Landfills are holes in the ground, not big hills of trash. When they fill up they are paved over and turned into useable space for homes, parks, wildnerness preserves or any such thing.

you may want to look into that a bit more. here in ontario we where having a major problem with finding land fils for trash, we had to ship it to the usa cause there was no space for it here. you cant just cover up garbage with pavements and cement and build parks over it. their are contaminats in the soil that have to be kept seperate from liviable space, you need lots of top soil that will take the settling of the trash without disrupting its ph balance and alot of other factors. if burrying it like you sujested was a viable option we wouldnt be having any problems dealing with as we are now.

[Loki]

Re: Recycling

you may want to look into that a bit more.

Okay.

here in ontario we where having a major problem with finding land fils for trash, we had to ship it to the usa cause there was no space for it here.

From an article last summer in the Christian Science Monitor:

Local politicians and environmentalists say they are distraught over Toronto's garbage crisis. The last landfill just north of the city was closed in 2002 by the provincial government, even though it wasn't full, says Mr. Miller. Local opposition in surrounding municipalities won't let Toronto open another one. In fact, other cities in the Greater Toronto Region also ship garbage to Michigan.

Seems it isn't so much a space issue as it is a political one. Of course you're going to have to ship out your trash if your government won't give you landfill space or let you burn the trash. And though the article says that the government wants to help the issue by encouraging more recycling that doesn't seem as good solution to me as just building a new landfill.

you cant just cover up garbage with pavements and cement and build parks over it. their are contaminants in the soil that have to be kept separate from livable space, you need lots of top soil that will take the settling of the trash without disrupting its ph balance and a lot of other factors. if burrying it like you sujested was a viable option we wouldnt be having any problems dealing with as we are now.

You're right. You can't just "cover it up." There are many engineering issues that have to be dealt with while creating a landfill. But not impossible ones. Basically the trash is put in a hole that is isolated by a think rubber bladder. After the landfill is full, the bladder is sealed. This is present to prevent the soil surrounding the landfill from becoming contaminated. Then a layer of concrete is created over the bladder, then more layers of clean soil are placed on top to cover the whole thing up, thus creating space for parks or whatever. This is, of course, a very simplified version of the process, but you get the idea. Landfills are designed to maximize usable, livable space, and to keep the surrounding soil clean and uncontaminated.

The image of mountians of garbage, being pecked at by seagulls, under a overcast and dark sky is flat out wrong. Most footage you see of such a scene is of trashbarges carying garbage to the landfills. Modern sanitary landfills are amazingly sanitary. In fact, the first landfill of this type, The Fresno Municipal Sanitary Landfill in California, is a National historic landmark because it was such an important step in the progress of modern society.

[Karr Lord of Chaos]

Re: Recycling

Seems it isn't so much a space issue as it is a political one. Of course you're going to have to ship out your trash if your government won't give you landfill space or let you burn the trash. And though the article says that the government wants to help the issue by encouraging more recycling that doesn't seem as good solution to me as just building a new landfill.

burning trash doesnt seam like a good way to deal with the contaminates, however its a wonderful idea to deal with the space issues. politics is definatly hampering the dump issue. id like to see better management of old landfil sites and more use of empty mine shafts (if we have any left).

You're right. You can't just "cover it up." There are many engineering issues that have to be dealt with while creating a landfill. But not impossible ones. Basically the trash is put in a hole that is isolated by a think rubber bladder. After the landfill is full, the bladder is sealed. This is present to prevent the soil surrounding the landfill from becoming contaminated. Then a layer of concrete is created over the bladder, then more layers of clean soil are placed on top to cover the whole thing up, thus creating space for parks or whatever. This is, of course, a very simplified version of the process, but you get the idea. Landfills are designed to maximize usable, livable space, and to keep the surrounding soil clean and uncontaminated.

rubber breaks down, and concreate cracks over time. landfil sites are horrible as people cant seam to understand that you dont dump cirtin types of nasties there. over time the contaminates can make its way into the water table or bubble to the surface. im not convinced that it would help trees and such much due to toxins. paving over it would work nicely except decaying trash causes alot of settling. perhaps this has worked in other places, id love to see the satistics on the soil quality or the amount of problems encountered.

The image of mountians of garbage, being pecked at by seagulls, under a overcast and dark sky is flat out wrong. Most footage you see of such a scene is of trashbarges carying garbage to the landfills. Modern sanitary landfills are amazingly sanitary. In fact, the first landfill of this type, The Fresno Municipal Sanitary Landfill in California, is a National historic landmark because it was such an important step in the progress of modern society.

http://historicfresno.org/nrhp/landfill.htm

an interesting artical here on this type of sanitary landfil. id say this is a thousand times better then other landfil types and probaly a much better and effective method then most used today.

one day i think our trash will be seperated so much that most of it will be recycled or used in some manor. perhaps even companies will work to reduce excessive packaging or develop products that break down easier over less amounts of time. perhaps even utilizing recyclable materials. in a world like ours with growing populations and a growing concern over enviromental resources, it will be very interesting to see what challanges we shall overcome. the enviroment is big business, id even say this is the next wave of rapid growth businesses.

[Valkysas]

Re: Recycling

you may want to look into that a bit more. here in ontario we where having a major problem with finding land fils for trash, we had to ship it to the usa cause there was no space for it here.

Yeah, you send all your crap directly to my state.

Thanks.

[Caciss]

Re: Recycling

What are you talking about Karr? That's how most landfills are run today.

Have you ever been to a landfill in your life?

[Karr Lord of Chaos]

Re: Recycling

What are you talking about Karr? That's how most landfills are run today.

Have you ever been to a landfill in your life?

ya, i use to dump all kinds of crap off there. perhaps i only saw a small portion of the landfil, not the parts where they burry it and such. i havent been to any recently as the closest one was closed 5 years ago. illegal dumping is way cheaper and the prefered method of choice

Yeah, you send all your crap directly to my state.

Thanks.

we had to stick it somewhere. id be more enclined to dump it in the arctic, not like people use all the space up there anyway. then again global warming may open up alot of good land, or sink it.

[Caciss]

Re: Recycling

Yeah, sounds like plan. Keep sending your **** our way.

[Valkysas]

Re: Recycling

perhaps i only saw a small portion of the landfil, not the parts where they burry it and such.

You saw a dump.
a dump is a big pile of trash.
they move stuff from the dump to a landfill.
the world "landfill" tells you it's a hole in the land that is filled.