The problem with American developers

[Kire]

David Jaffe layed out the details of his cancelled project, "Heartland," which was "supposed to make you cry." It sounded very intriguing and awesome to me.

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3157905

David Jaffe cleared the air by saying "Heartland was the story of China invading America. It was a first-person-shooter where you played a soldier debating whether to stay and fight for America or go AWOL to meet up with your family. We were trying to put in a lot of gameplay that would evoke emotion. You had sequences where you'd go into homes and your commanding officer would tell you to shoot innocent Chinese-Americans. It was very dark and was meant to cause players to consider what it's like to live in America and be an American today."

Sounds like it could be a deeply meaningful game, so why did Jaffe step away from the project? "Hearing myself talk about it now makes me a bit sad (that we didn't finish it). But I wasn't incentivized to make it, in a way I could go to my family and say 'You're not going to see me for 90% of the time, but there's a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.' There isn't a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, at least the current way the industry is set up."

It's funny, me and Mora were talking about this earlier, why American games usually don't reach "art" status...it's because companies aren't willing to go behind the vision of one like they are in Japan, or the way they are willing to do in the American film industry. I also have no doubt that he succumbed to the pressure of higher ups that it wouldn't be successful from a sales standpoint.

What do you think? Is the American development system salvagable? There are glimmers of hope out there with rock stars like Cliffy B and Will Wright making their visions come to fruition, but the U.S. game industry has a long way to go in this regard. It's my hope that services like XBox Live Arcade will make more of these individual visions possible. What steps do you think have to take place to make video games more viable as an art form in the States?

[Misty]

Re: The problem with American developers

All I wish for American game developers is that they work hard to make good games. I don't really like games that are sparsely made just to make a quick buck--it tells me those people don't give a **** about making anything good and are just thinking about their next paycheck. Hard work pays off. Dedication pays off. I have great admiration for developers who truly love their projects and are willing to do everything, even make some sacrifices, to put out an excellent game.

[Kire]

Re: The problem with American developers

If you think the reason that American games often lack creativity and vision is because of the work put into them...well, let's just say you're mistaken. I should know having worked in it for almost 5 years now as an artist in the industry.

When I worked on Saint's Row, it was a minimum 60 hour workweek on average, and that's just if you were lucky! This was a team of 150 people. This was all for a GTA knockoff...a very good one at that, which improved on it in many areas, but lets face it, it was what it was. Long hard hours are usually the standard when production ramps up, especially in crunch time. The amount of work put into it had nothing to do with the overall vision behind it.

[Valkysas]

Re: The problem with American developers

I don't know if things can change. US publishers seem to only care about war-themed FPS and GTA clone games lately. a lot the "big" games to come out lately have been from those genres. Unless they're just following Japanese companies, often afraid to take the risks of creating something completely new themselves.

Kind of like how Metal Gear Solid did great, so here comes Syphon Filter and Splinter Cell. Street Fighter 2 was a revolution in the industry, so here comes Mortal Kombat.

Of course, Japanese companies do it too, like how the console manufacturers all followed the Dreamcast's lead a few years ago. They'll never admit to it, but we saw it. Everything about that system was copied. Controller? VMU? SegaNet? Built-in modem? ability to swap out the modem for a high-speed connection? Yep, it was all taken. Mostly by Microsoft, but the swapable modem was taken by Nintendo, and the VMU was ripped off by Sony, although only for the PS1. and both those companies failed with the ideas they took. MS is the only one that really hit it big stealing from the DC.

So it goes like this. America copies the big Japanese companies, and the big Japanese companies copy the smaller Japanese companies.

So basically, if you want the American development system to change, something like ICO, Shadow of the Colossus, or Okami has to become a million-seller in the US first. Things can change, but the US has to see Japan do it first.

[Misty]

Re: The problem with American developers

If you think the reason that American games often lack creativity and vision is because of the work put into them...well, let's just say you're mistaken. I should know having worked in it for almost 5 years now as an artist in the industry.

When I worked on Saint's Row, it was a minimum 60 hour workweek on average, and that's just if you were lucky! This was a team of 150 people. This was all for a GTA knockoff...a very good one at that, which improved on it in many areas, but lets face it, it was what it was. Long hard hours are usually the standard when production ramps up, especially in crunch time. The amount of work put into it had nothing to do with the overall vision behind it.

I was always lead to believe that hard work was one of the key factors that made a good game, though. Take Riven, for example. That game took, I think, 3 or 4 years to develop and it ended up being one of the greatest PC games of all time--selling millions of copies. And the original Myst took a while, too. Only about eight or nine members (I think) were on it, and it took several years of planning, programming (and a lot of coffee!). Little did they know--it would become one of the biggest game industry success stories ever told!

But my initial thinking could be wrong, though.

I guess what I was trying to say was that developers have got to work hard in coming up with new ideas, new innovations and new ways to work with the hardware they have.

Oh, and I didn't know Kire worked on Saint's Row!

[golly_jollydude]

Re: The problem with American developers

All that work on Riven and yet I finished it in merely two days? Wow. I didn't know so much work went into it. Four years?

[Magus]

Re: The problem with American developers

Is the problem with the American developers? What about the consumers who just can't get enough of the WWII sims and GTA clones? Joe Blow sees Okami and thinks "queer." He sees Medal of Brothers: Battle of the Bulge and pops a ***** so hard his frat bro next to him feels it. They go back to the dorm, **** a few hours then toss the virtual pigskin around in Lebron James Plays Football Now '08. Maybe they'll get God of War II. But then again that's just a sequel in a franchise now anyway.

Otherwise I don't think there's much to worry about. This field, from my point of view anyway, has come an even longer way than the film scene in an even shorter amount of time. Hollywood STILL chugs along on the crappy old studio system absolutely HORRIFIED of financial apoplexy in lieu of creative ventures. Though I do see the risk games could head in the same, flaccid direction I think this industry's so young there's sure to be more and more changes and innovations as the years go by, regardless of origin (JAPAN LOL). And hopefully audiences will mature with the medium. People who can tell the good from the bad, the original from the tepid.

But who's willing to bet that'll happen?



BTW, I bought Geometry Wars on XBox Live Arcade recently and I gotta say if that game isn't considered "art" then farts on all of you. So simple yet so complex (!!!) and completely mesmerizing.

[Shard]

Re: The problem with American developers

Heartland does seem interesting, but I have to wonder at the choice of genre. The core of the FPS crowd isn't looking for a well-told story and moral dilemma. I'm sure they could accept those things if the gameplay was scintillating enough, but they certainly wouldn't be the primary selling points.

I don't know if Jaffe is out to make an artistic statement or not. Reading his quote, it sounded like he wouldn't make enough money/have a big enough budget to do it the way he wanted to...which is fine, his call to make. But, if your goal is to pursue gaming as an artform, I don't think those would be big enough obstacles if making art was his focus.

Finally, a big developer has to consider the down-side of making an artistic game...namely that it won't sell, you may lose millions in development, and the millions more you could have made if you'd played it safe and gone with something you knew would sell. There's good reason for small-time developers pushing the envelope...it's less risk for them, less money invested, and less people to answer to if things don't pan out.

I don't think the question is: How do we make American developers more innovative? Big developers are going to act the same way no matter where they originate from. The way I see it is: How do we shape the gaming market so that large and small developers can exist side by side, each being profitable?

[Smurvis]

Re: The problem with American developers

Games have always seemed to be a compromise of the creator's vision and the publisher's projected sales.

[Maijo]

Re: The problem with American developers

Games are getting boring and Nintendo is afraid to make a game that isn't cartoony.

[golly_jollydude]

Re: The problem with American developers

What about Twilight Princess? That's not cartoony.

[Magus]

Re: The problem with American developers

this topic is going in a bold and interesting direction

[Maijo]

Re: The problem with American developers

Somehow I knew somebody would say it.

It's not cartoony, but it isn't dark either.

[Valkysas]

Re: The problem with American developers

Games are getting boring and Nintendo is afraid to make a game that isn't cartoony.

What about Twilight Princess? That's not cartoony.

exactly.

It's not cartoony, but it isn't dark either.

Why should it have to be? it's Zelda. I love how people view things as either "cartoony" or "DARK". I hate that word. Dark. ugh. so overused.

Nintendo isnt AFRAID to do anything. They're in the unique position of being able to do anything they want to. They have more money than the game divisions of Sony or Microsoft. Nintendo doesnt even have to think about projected profits when making something.

Add to that, Nintendo isnt an AMERICAN DEVELOPER. You know, those people this topic is about.

[golly_jollydude]

Re: The problem with American developers

Somehow I knew somebody would say it.

It's not cartoony, but it isn't dark either.

Well yeah. Zelda's not really a dark game.