RPGM1 vs RPGM2

[Rodak]

A local used games shop has RPGM1 in stock and I am considering picking it up despite the fact that I have been using RPGM2 for several months now.

I have two questions first before I break down and buy it. First: is there a "Strategy Guide", like Prima's RPGM2 guide, for this item (I still hesitate to call this series a game).

Second, and most important: Is there a cow in the character database? I made my first post when Valkysas was collecting comments to pass along to Enterbrain and the lack of a cow was my biggest complaint about RPGM2. My main character had to be the sheep (I never claimed to be sane)!

I guess I should ask something about the bigger differences between the two items, but I can't think of any good questions!

Peace.

[Draygone]

Trust me, you won't even need a guide for RPGM1.

Second, no cow. But, it's possible to make one in the included sprite-making tool, Anime Maker.

Third, don't get your hopes up that you'll be able to do things as great as in RPGM2. RPGM1 is tones easier, but it doesn't hold as many possibilities outside of Anime Maker. Still, it's very rewarding if you're able to get around the limits, and I myself like it very much.

At the very least, though, you should get it if only to play some of the great RPGM1 games here and at other places.

[Rodak]

Great response!

While I really like the idea of graphically creating our own characters (sprites) I think I may have to wait until I get the ability to connect my PS2 to the internet to start playing other people's games. Unfortunately my own computer is not well and even if it was, I do not have a "network adapter."

If I finish the game on which I am currently working in time for the contest I'll try to get one. I may just ask for somebody willing to trade addresses and send out a memory card which can be copied, refilled with other peoples stuff and returned. That's a lot to ask and I'll understand if nobody wants to do it, but until I get my computer up and running, and until I get the adapter, that may be my only option.

It sounds like RPGM1 may be good for me after all due to the graphics capabilities. Unlike most people on these boards I really don't care either way about tweaking the Battle System. I spend most of my time making animations and environments. I do make up new names for spells and swap visual effects around (sometimes tweaking them) to suit the Bizarre Character Classes and spell names I created. And I have not had to make too many scripts for the weird items I use, I just switch names and sometimes modify the pre-set scripts for existing stuff.

This may seem odd, but I do not think of the battles as the main attraction to these type games. I just try to enjoy myself and do not care if anybody else enjoys my creation!

In fact, I should eventually mention that my game will contain thoroughly offensive content with naughty language, and may not be suitable for posting on this site. Before submitting it I shall be sure to get permission! I can always post it elsewhere, but even linking to it may be considered less than acceptable considering children may get their under-age hands on it.

Ahh, us fickle artists. At least we have fun!

[Valkysas]

If I finish the game on which I am currently working in time for the contest I'll try to get one. I may just ask for somebody willing to trade addresses and send out a memory card which can be copied, refilled with other peoples stuff and returned

if you want, you can send me a memory card with a submission on it, or ask that I put games on it, it'd be no problem.

[Rodak]

Valkysas, since I have your attention I guess this would be a good time and place to inquire about acceptability of rude and vulgar content in games.

Can such stuff be posted here or should I stick to direct exchanges.

I enjoy this board and actually have received help here. It would be a shame if my ideas of what is and what is not acceptable in a game caused bad relations between us.

Is there a way to make sure minors do not receive such material apart from simply not posting it?

[Valkysas]

while we do try and keep the pavilion safe for all ages, we are an RPG Maker site, and thus, the artistic rights of our members to put whatever they want in their games and to be able to talk about it always comes first.

[Pandacon]

You can always give your game a rating, like M for mature, or AO for Adults Only, depending on what you have planned for the game :p

[Valkysas]

but we really have no way of enforcing that.

[Rodak]

This one is gonna be long!

Enforcement is not really so much the issue as labeling. If you put a simple statement like "By downloading this file you swear that you are of legal age to view material with mature or adut content and you release the creators of the game and hosts of the site from any liability for warping of young minds that may result from interacting with controversial material."

Or something like that. Trust me, we really should take the iniative and label such material someway. I'll give an example of what can happen from my personal experience: When I graduated high school (countless millennia ago) I left college to help my father run a business after he lost his job. It was a Dry Cleaner. After a few years we opened a second store and I was given the first one to manage. We wound up with an empty back room and I chose to stuff a comic book store in there! There was a title called Miracleman which had an issue (#9) featuring an anatomically correct birth scene. The cover bore the usual mature reader warnings and parental advisory. One of my 16 year old customers was subscribing to Miracleman and since he consistantly acted in a more mature fashion than most of my "adult" customers, and since he had sex ed in high school already, I saw no conflict selling him the item.

Oboy.

His mother contacted OUR MAYOR and tried to report me for selling PORNOGRAPHY to minors!

I contacted the mayor, made an appointment, brought the comic book in question and a copy of Gray's Anatomy. I pointed out that any Art Student knows the difference between a Nude and Naked body. The representation of Birth in the issue was respectfully handled and there were even more examples of this kind of stuff in Gray's Anatomy than the two or three panels in question here. In fact Gray's even showed Male Genitalia.

They agreed that the material was not pornographic but told me that a complaint was filed and they had to follow through. So I pointed out that we were in the process of following through at the moment and that they really did not want me to file a counter-complaint against every book store in the area who carries Gray's Anatomy. I already removed the item that caused the complaint from my shelves so that not even adults could buy it and I asked them to talk to the woman who complained, tell her I apologize and have taken measures, and try to get her to let it go.

It worked. But that was long before The Republicans managed to convince a lot of people that children should not know about genitalia before they turn 18 and suddenly sprout them!

I strongly advise everyone involved to self-regulate before somebody gets offended. If there is a warning in place you at least have a flimsy defense and you can say you tried.

Free speech is one thing, but you still can't yell "Fire" in a crowd, and public naughtiness is not protected speech under the constitutiion (anymore).

Welcome to the 21st Century.

[Valkysas]

the problem with such disclaimers, is that even though a rating has been requested with all pavilion submissions, few people have ever bothered to give their games ratings. we finally just stopped requesting them a few months ago.

there are over 160 games and demos on the pavilion. to go through and play them all, and label them for content would be an obscenely difficult task. there are only two that really raise issue with sexual stuff anyways. crazy horse by dave carter is about um... horse breeding, I guess we can call it. and then the other one is a horrible, god-awful game that goes by the name of leisure suit larry 8, where the creator actually went to the trouble of scanning pornography and using the images as monsters in the game. I guess he wanted to simulate a sex scene through the battles, but what really happens is that you end up beating the daylights out of naked women.

that particular game is no problem anyways, only 7 people have ever downloaded it, and that was for the contest that it was entered in, and recieved a large negative score.

[Pandacon]

How exactly do you scan images into the game?

[Draygone]

Scan it into your computer, then import it into Anime Maker using the RPGC found on this page (http://www.rpgmmag.com/utilities.html). A very useful tool overall, though you'd have to import it onto a memory card somehow if you didn't own ePSXe.

[Pandacon]

Can you just use the Dexdrive to put it on your card?

and ePSXe.... is that an emulator?

[Draygone]

If you have a DexDrive, then use it.

And yes, ePSXe is an emulator.

[Pandacon]

ah, ok, gotta check that all out then

[Rodak]

the problem with such disclaimers, is that even though a rating has been requested with all pavilion submissions, few people have ever bothered to give their games ratings. we finally just stopped requesting them a few months ago.

Does anyone else think this topic deserves it's own thread?

While I understand you can not take the time to play through every game and rate it yourself for content, I still think the creators know what they are posting and should warn people up front.

Maybe I did not make it clear, but the woman (and I use the term loosely) who filed that complaint could have ruined my life and even cost me jail time!

I was fortunate. But these days you can never repay your debt to society if you get convicted of anything even remotely considered a sex crime. Especially if it involves minors. Just look at the witch-hunt mentality behind Megan's Law and other such things. And while it is a worst-case scenario, it is possible.

While all my game does is make references to Beastiality (the main character is a sheep), poke fun at Religion (beer and ladies panties are objects of worship), use oral sex as a means of exchange (why not?) and considers nothing at all sacred (nothing is!), that is enough to really incur the wrath of the less tolerant in our society. Those people really scare me. They are the same ones who think we are all terrorists using RPG Maker for Rocket Propelled Grenades! (All right, that was a truly awful joke... but I am a sarcaleptic... One who has uncontrollable bouts of Sarcasm!) (and it is against my religion to erase any joke I write no matter how awful).


If this line of thought gets it's own thread maybe we could include some relevant bits from this thread to let people know how it got started!

But since this thread was started about an entirely different subject I'll end that line by stating that the store sold the copy of RPGM1 before I got back! I guess I'll wait until I finish what I'm working on and then rethink whether or not to seek the earlier game. From what I've read here today it seems better than the upcoming RPGM3 (sorry folks, I don't think I could be as silly with a racing game as I can with an RPG).

[Pandacon]

I think your overthinking the whole issue, this is the internet, and anomity is king. Just put a warning on it and you'll be fine. If we got games about beating women, then there isn't much worse you can put on this site.

In any case, so few people will be playing RPGM games that its unlikely it'll come across some stupid mother who cant raise her child without making others do her job for her.

[Rodak]

As a professional scientist afflicted with a philosophy degree, overthinking things is what I do best!

I hope you are right, but to not even label things with a minor warning really is asking for trouble.

What we do is art. Art has certain protections, but as my example shows "Ya Never Know!"

[Valkysas]

by all means, we arent required by law to do anything. we're safe from lawsuits and stupid parents. its no big deal. if you want to put a warning with your game, thats fine, but we certainly dont require it.

[The Final Rune]

but we really have no way of enforcing that.

Technically, that's not your resposibilty Valk. If a child's parents aren't monitering their child's internet and video game use, then they have only themselves to blame. That's why the ESRB was invented. To inform parents and consumers what kind of content their entertainment contains. I would hate for some angry parent to come in here yelling for their kid getting some 'improper' game from the Pavilion, but truthfully that's unavoidable without limiting people's creative rights. I hate catch-22s. :(

[Draygone]

While all my game does is make references to Beastiality (the main character is a sheep), poke fun at Religion (beer and ladies panties are objects of worship), use oral sex as a means of exchange (why not?) and considers nothing at all sacred (nothing is!), You obviously know nothing about Valk's "Legend of Pants" game. I know little of it, but if I remember, it does have a few suggestive themes.From what I've read here today it seems better than the upcoming RPGM3 (sorry folks, I don't think I could be as silly with a racing game as I can with an RPG). What? RPGM3 is mostly for RPGs, as well as other genres if you can find a way to create them. (Although if you want to have silliness, then you probably won't want RPGM3 anyway.)Technically, that's not your resposibilty Valk. If a child's parents aren't monitering their child's internet and video game use, then they have only themselves to blame. That's why the ESRB was invented. To inform parents and consumers what kind of content their entertainment contains. A lot of good that's doing. When will people find some other excuse for their children's shooting of other people and the like?

[Mikochan]

it does have a few suggestive themes.
a few? an hour into the game the main character, a 14 year old girl, strips down and ****s a dead horse.

which is my fault, I wrote everything for the character Mina.

[The Toecutter]

In any case, so few people will be playing RPGM games that its unlikely it'll come across some stupid mother who cant raise her child without making others do her job for her.

I'd tell the ***** to shove her 'moral values' up her frontal opening.

[Rodak]

Oh my... look what I started.

We all know that it is Parents' responsibility to monitor such things.

We all also know that they do not do so.

Furthermore, we all know that the world is going crazy.

I think the best way to resolve this is simply to read your user agreement and find the bit about naughtiness. If you post naughty things you are indeed liable. You agreed to it! And I'll wager there is something in the user agreement with the ISP hosting the forum. Those Internet Service Providers who allow adult content usually specialize in such.

I know that this is mountains and molehills, and that there is nothing that will ever happen as a result of posting a naughty game, but I have been the target of public outrage and it is a terrible experience I would not wish upon anyone involved with this forum.

Peace.

[Valkysas]

read your user agreement and find the bit about naughtiness. If you post naughty things you are indeed liable. You agreed to it! And I'll wager there is something in the user agreement with the ISP hosting the forum. Those Internet Service Providers who allow adult content usually specialize in such.

the user agreement needs to be changed, its the default one from the Vbulletin setup. we've only been on this forum for around 3 months now, previously we were on EZboard.

as for what type of standards there are with the company hosting the forum, this forum is on my server. I own it, I set the rules for it.

[Rodak]

OK! You convinced me to leave this line of discussion alone!!

Being your own ISP makes all the difference.

I do not want people to think I am paranoid, but I am paranoid! You would be too under similiar circumstances.

I am greatly releived to know that there really is nothing to worry about... not so much for my sake (because I would label things as not intended for children) as for the sake of everyone else who may not have thought to do so!

Thanks, Valkysas, for providing that last bit of information. As you may have noticed, shutting me up is no easy task!!

Peace.

[Chuck]

Couldn't the whole thing be covered with a meaningless "Some of these games may contain inappropriate material for minors." in bold letters on the main download page? And if a game maker really thought they made something vulgar put a more specific message in the game as soon as the person starts playing it. If they continue after that it's all their doing.

This whole type of issue just shows what's wrong with democracy, you end up having to cater to the lowest common denominator. Eventually all order will break down as there will be so many laws (many contradicting each other) just to please the most easily offended that none will really mean anything. It's already true really. There isn't a single crime that an attorney can't find precendent to excuse if they look hard enough.

[Rodak]

And I thought this thread died!

Well, I would like to believe that the "may be inappropriate" warning should be enough but I just do not know (for all of the reasons you mentioned!).

I certainly will include it in my creations more as a courtesy than as something I expect would carry any real legal protections.

This situation is not new or unique to Democracy though... after all it was William Shakespeare who first said "Kill all the Lawyers!" and he lived in a Monarchy!

The problem could be solved by my personal suggestion (even though it is really drastic): I say BAN CHILDREN FROM THE INTERNET!!! Or at least ban UNSUPERVISED Children. That way nobody can be blamed for anything kids may find online except the parents, guardians, or whomever is supposed to responsible for the minor in question.

People always think that web access is some kind of right. It is not. Further, like Cable Television, it is a service to which you must subscribe. In the case of Broadcast vs Cable television the different standards of "decency" are justified with that argument.

And don't get me going on "adult content filter" software either! Most of them wont allow you on NASA's Mars Explorer site because when spelled in a string all it sees is "marSEXplorer.com"

That is not a lie or an exaggeration.

I have been told that this is America and you better just "Love it or Leave it!" but I say this is America and if you don't Love It, try to change it! That is what Democracy is all about!

Should I mention that we do not live in a Democracy? If you study it closely America really is more of a Plutocracy (Government where Money makes the laws (or, more accurately, Government by the wealthy)).

I better stop before I say something that will get me on even more lists!

Peace.

[WilliamKirk]

Eh, I wouldn't worry about it. The only people that come here and download/play games are ones that are interested in playing those games.

On the other hand, I know that I'll give my game a rating when I'm done. It's looking like it'll be Mature, but just barely (I don't like the idea of censoring myself and my game-making in any way, but I don't try to make anything offensive/repuslive/'inapropriate' on purpose).

[WarDragon]

i try to stay away from making things violent and repulsive for now. I would have to do that for flashmx. But anyway i don't like censureship that's unfair for some ages, or that some censureship wants to use that mature rated titled to say that this is the way that our kids our acting.