Poison in RPGM3 & RPGM3 Gameplay Discussion Extravaganza!

[Wavelength]

Thinking about putting the "Poison" effect all over the place in your game? THINK AGAIN!!!

You've probably noticed it in your test play, but the Poison status is EXTREMELY disruptive while you're walking around maps. The screen flashes and a loud sound effect ("Damage") plays, your character stops for a few seconds, and you get some generic text telling you you're poisoned. To top it off, the actual damage you take is rather negligible. And this happens every 15-30 seconds or so while you're walking. (Frankly, when I'm not prepared for it, it scares the hell out of me.)

You can, of course, try to use a workaround:

*If you're using Event Battles only, simply put a "Cure Poison" line in there at the end of each battle.

*If you're giving the party a Treasure at the end of random battles to trigger an auto event, consider sticking a Cure Poison line in the auto event

*If you're using Random Battles without the Treasure trick, for the love of God, make cheap, semi-reusable Antidote items (if you're really nice you could simply give the player one infinitely reusable antidote item), or give a few (not just one) characters a very cheap Cure Poison spell/skill. It takes a turn to use in battle, which at least enables some semblance of balance.


Anyhow, additional workarounds to the Poison Problem or comments on how much it does (or doesn't, I guess, if you're a masochist ) annoy you would be appreciated.

[MagusMartovich]

Re: Poison in RPGM3

You could always give the availability of a "Resist Poison" armor. To make it more of a toss up it could even be less protective than some of the other armors in the game, but at least you won't get poisoned.

I put an invisible even that poisons the party at the start of some dungeons. LIke you said, the damage is negligable and it scares people silly (more when they didn't even know that they were poisoned) so having a "spooky" environment to boot helps.

On a side comment, when are antidotes ever expensive? I mean, I have never played a game where I went broke over buying/having to buy antidotes, and by the same rational thinking, when are antidote-spells ever very costly either? MY big gripe with antidote-spells is that the character that has the antidote-spell is usually missing something that could actually be useful through most/all of the game. If anything, I'd rather give an infinite use antidote item to start with because spell wise I could do better than waste a skill on that, you know?

[DarkwingChuck]

Re: Poison in RPGM3

I agree, I was playing an RM3 game the other day and walking around poisoned. It was just so annoying. It wouldn't be so bad if they didn't have the text message which forces you to stop for a couple seconds. You could just have the enemies that have poison attacks drop a couple antidotes. An infinite antidote just seems like it'd take up an item slot all the time for something you seldom need.

[Pagerron]

Re: Poison in RPGM3

Okay, well first I definitely agree about walking around on the map being poisoned. The way I found out was during a playtest. I really jumped. It really is freaky when you don't know to expect it. I wish the manual had included the info about exactly what happens when you use a trap disarmer, poison, etc. Some of the effects are really cool. Others, like this, are just shocking. In my game, I have an item for sale (it's not expensive) that the player can use to remove the poison status.

[MagusMartovich]

Re: Poison in RPGM3

I wish the manual had included the info about exactly what happens when you use a trap disarmer, poison, etc.

Uh, aside from the poison status effect not carrying over from battle to world map (Chrono Trigger, comes to mind) when did games not give you a visual warning about, "HEY!!! You're still poisoned!!!" I mean, sure, companies that make RPGs (Square-enix and their ilk) will inclue in the manual things like, "If you're poisoned/slow/dead..." but the RM series isn't about playing through "Gobli" or "Fu-Ma" or "Dear Brave Heart" because its about making your own RPG to fufill your own dreams/desires in an RPG outlet.

I, personally, LOVE the shock value of poison, and I use it regularly. Again, antidotes are cheap and easy to come by, and I try to include it as a general nusiance, not a mortal danger. Like I said, having an invisible event right inside of a dungeon is a great way to make friends kick their snack bowl across the room!

IF it makes you feel better you can (waste) a NPC and have them say something about how poison is "really shocking" and you might not be able to handle the air inside the "Poison Tower of Poisioning" but really, I prefer to let subtle hints (like the "Poison Tower of Poisioning") do my dirty work for me.

Technically, if you give monsters poison/drop antidote then players will never really even know about the pop up.

[JPS]

Re: Poison in RPGM3

when did games not give you a visual warning about, "HEY!!! You're still poisoned!!!"

FF7 if I recall didn't give you any visual effect on you being poisoned, aside from the POISON status next to your name in the status menu, I may be wrong, the screen may have blinked every step but I dont recall seeing that.

[Pagerron]

Re: Poison in RPGM3

Magus,

What I meant was that the manual should include things like:

When poisoned, # of HP will be reduced every # seconds, and a green sick-looking face will appear in the status screen.

When a trap disarmer is used, a certain color icon will appear on the screen in dungeons and cancel all traps for # seconds.

Etc.

You know. That would have been useful info. That way, as we create, we know exactly what the person playing our game can expect to happen instead of creating an effect or an item and testing out our own game to find out what we just made.

[Ωbright]

Re: Poison in RPGM3

That would be nice. It would also be nice to have more than 4 conditions for healing items to be used. 'when used, when HP = 1/4, when MP = 1/4, when defeated' are cool, but it's aparently impossible to make an item that automatically cures poison 'when poisoned'. I agree that being poisoned is a bit jarring at times, but it might help to:

- Start people off with at least one poison-healing item each
- Make items that heal poison available early on, for a small price
- Give antidotes as awards from enemies
- Place antidotes in chests often
- Give an antidote spell/skill to at least 2-3 characters. You don't have to go into a battle to use it, you can look in your character screen, see who's poisoned, and cure them right then.

I like to use poison in games, but it can't take the place of 'sleep', 'confuse', 'charm', 'frog', 'steal'...you know what I mean. If all of those were there, poison wouldn't have to carry so much responsibility.

[Stormy]

Re: Poison in RPGM3

I think a screen flash would have been fine, but forcing you to stop and deal with a message box gets real old, real fast.

P.S. When the damage is dealt isn't about time, its about steps taken.

[JPS]

Re: Poison in RPGM3

Yes RM3 is lacking on status effects

[MagusMartovich]

Re: Poison in RPGM3

Pagerron,

I didn't mean to step on toes here, all I was saying is that if the manual told you poison will make a big sound, the screen flashes and shakes and a message pops up telling you that you're poisoned, I don't think that anybody would use poison.

As for the trap disarm, I personally don't like it because it isn't a one shot deal. So, for X ammount of time you don't have to worry about traps?

Or, for Y ammount of time, you will not be attack by random monsters?! But all the work I put into making my final dungeon a gauntlet is now unnoticed because you ran through it without having to battle even one of my Dark Lord's Minions!!!

ALl that I'm saying is, poison is what it is. The programers decided that you get Poison, Slow/Stop, Mute, and Dead. Sure, it would have been nice if Sleep was there, or Confuse, or if you could change the text on Stop to Paralyze, but you can't. Our responsility as game designers is to take whatever horrible, poorly thought out RM that Agetec sends our way and make the best darn games we can!!!

[JPS]

Re: Poison in RPGM3

Our responsility as game designers is to take whatever horrible, poorly thought out RM that Agetec sends our way and make the best darn games we can!!!

Well said

[Pagerron]

Re: Poison in RPGM3

I get what you're saying Magus.

And yes, you're right about doing the best we can with what we've got. After all, we can make the coolest-looking fields of all of the makers.

[Wavelength]

Re: Poison in RPGM3

I didn't mean to step on toes here, all I was saying is that if the manual told you poison will make a big sound, the screen flashes and shakes and a message pops up telling you that you're poisoned, I don't think that anybody would use poison.

Wouldn't it be nice if they made Poison so that they could list what it does in the manual and NOT turn everyone off? I can see its use in Battle (though its SERIOUSLY underpowered and unfortunately its power is not customizable) but it just gets annoying when taken onto the main map (its use as a "timer" or even as "health degen" would be better done using Auto Events based on Time). I suppose for a scary game it might be okay, but most games don't use Poison to be scary.

As for the trap disarm, I personally don't like it because it isn't a one shot deal. So, for X ammount of time you don't have to worry about traps?

Or, for Y ammount of time, you will not be attack by random monsters?! But all the work I put into making my final dungeon a gauntlet is now unnoticed because you ran through it without having to battle even one of my Dark Lord's Minions!!!

I'd recommend using Events for the "traps" and trying for custom Disarm events. If you don't like the No Battles skill, don't add it to your game. I agree that they could be better done, but it seems like your complaints here are just a bit strange.

ALl that I'm saying is, poison is what it is. The programers decided that you get Poison, Slow/Stop, Mute, and Dead. Sure, it would have been nice if Sleep was there, or Confuse, or if you could change the text on Stop to Paralyze, but you can't. Our responsility as game designers is to take whatever horrible, poorly thought out RM that Agetec sends our way and make the best darn games we can!!!

A Custom Status Scripting System would be one of my top ten desires for the next RPG Maker. And our other responsibility as RPGM game designers is to make our desires known so that Agetec can give us the tools we need in the next RM.

Just a few status effects I'd love to have in my game (all effects are temporary)...
*Firewall: When attacked in melee, does damage to attacker
*Rest: Cannot take action, but has quick health regeneration
*Confusion: Uses random skills and targets someone (whether friend or foe) at random
*Perception: Ignores target's DEF and MDEF when attacking
*Venom: Stats fall each turn until cured
*Shame: Cannot use Skills or Spells against foes
*Mania: Cannot use skills or spells, but ATK is increased greatly
*Berserk: DEF stat is decreased to zero; ATK stat increases by amount lost
*Ether Rush: For a short time, spells cost no MP
*Martyr: Protects an ally; when that ally should be damaged, damage is dealt to Martyr instead

[Ωbright]

Re: Poison in RPGM3

As for the trap disarm, I personally don't like it because it isn't a one shot deal. So, for X ammount of time you don't have to worry about traps?

Or, for Y ammount of time, you will not be attack by random monsters?! But all the work I put into making my final dungeon a gauntlet is now unnoticed because you ran through it without having to battle even one of my Dark Lord's Minions!!!

I agree about the traps, it would have been nice to be able to clear a floor of traps permanently, but oh well...there are ways to integrate the default treatment of the 'disarm' skill. For instance, you can make a 'lamp' item that disarms traps when used. The smoke points out the traps, but eventually disipates, so you have to do it again. The skill which disarms traps works perfectly already in a way...the effects are brought about by magic or concentration, which both have time limits. Spells wear off, and concentrating for long periods is taxing.

Also, you can simulate random encounters by making 2 (or more) invisible events.
- Event one waits for 10 seconds (or however long), presents players with a battle, turns the display of event 2 ON, and turns itself OFF.

- Event 2 does the same thing (maybe an alt. battle party?), turns event 1 ON, then turns itself OFF.

If all goes as planned, 10 seconds after entering a dungeon you'll fight enemy party A. 10 seconds later you'll fight enemy party B, etc. This happens whether you move or not. I have only done basic experiments on this...I don't know if this 2-event circuit will flip the loop alarm or not. You may have to simplify it by using 1 event and a treasure item instead, but I know this works.

Point is, you can make a seperate area which has 'scripted random' battles, and therefore is immune to the effects of encounter up/down.

ALl that I'm saying is, poison is what it is. The programers decided that you get Poison, Slow/Stop, Mute, and Dead. Sure, it would have been nice if Sleep was there, or Confuse, or if you could change the text on Stop to Paralyze, but you can't. Our responsility as game designers is to take whatever horrible, poorly thought out RM that Agetec sends our way and make the best darn games we can!!!

I didn't mean to slag on RM3, I mainly wanted to point out that poison becomes tiresome more quickly in the absence of variety. I for one like the effect of poisoning in RM3...yes it's annoying, but it lets you know that physical damage is being taken by one of your allies. The 'push X' crap has got to go though.

No game ever made...no game MAKER ever made was ever perfect, or is likely ever to be. They were all made within certain inherent limitations of the platforms they were made for. It's a question of priority, and necessity. I for one think that RM3 is a milestone...maybe not a 'capstone', or a 'keystone'...or a...rosetta stone...but a 'cornerstone'. I think it's AMAZING, and it's simplicity is a ruse, in many ways. Not only do I disagree that RM3 is 'horrible' or 'poorly thought out'...I think it's ingenius in a lot of ways. I'm sure if you sat down and talked with the developers and asked them questions like 'why is there no way to use monster models as NPC's?' or 'Why did you leave out a random number generator?', I'm sure that they would say that they HAD to remove [item A] in order to keep [item B] and still be within the [arbitrary data restriction]. So why did they even bother? I'unnow...but I'm really really glad they did. Didn't mean to go off on a tangent there, I know you were mostly kidding anyway.

Wouldn't it be nice if they made Poison so that they could list what it does in the manual and NOT turn everyone off? I can see its use in Battle (though its SERIOUSLY underpowered and unfortunately its power is not customizable) but it just gets annoying when taken onto the main map (its use as a "timer" or even as "health degen" would be better done using Auto Events based on Time). I suppose for a scary game it might be okay, but most games don't use Poison to be scary.

OMG...is this...another use of treassure items and invisible events? You could make an 'Evil Eye' treasure that is dropped by an enemy. You can't sell it or drop it, but as long as you have it your party takes damage every so often. You'd need another NPC or event to remove the treasure, and there's no spell or skill to remedy this hacked poison, but you could replace the annoying interruptions of REAL poison with simple screen flashes periodically.

I'd recommend using Events for the "traps" and trying for custom Disarm events.

Even if you can't disarm the traps, you can change the damage that they do to zero...but they're still an annoyance. Is there a 'disarm traps' event code?

A Custom Status Scripting System would be one of my top ten desires for the next RPG Maker. And our other responsibility as RPGM game designers is to make our desires known so that Agetec can give us the tools we need in the next RM.

Just a few status effects I'd love to have in my game (all effects are temporary)...
*Firewall: When attacked in melee, does damage to attacker
*Rest: Cannot take action, but has quick health regeneration
*Confusion: Uses random skills and targets someone (whether friend or foe) at random
*Perception: Ignores target's DEF and MDEF when attacking
*Venom: Stats fall each turn until cured
*Shame: Cannot use Skills or Spells against foes
*Mania: Cannot use skills or spells, but ATK is increased greatly
*Berserk: DEF stat is decreased to zero; ATK stat increases by amount lost
*Ether Rush: For a short time, spells cost no MP
*Martyr: Protects an ally; when that ally should be damaged, damage is dealt to Martyr instead

Awesome status effects! Here's some more...
*Explode: character will explode in 3 turns if not cured, killing that character (or enemy) and damaging everyone else by a set amount.
*curse: Set chance that attacks/magic will backfire
*ensnare: Enemies must use ranged attacks, even on the front row
*Um......how about 'Silence'...oh, how novel!!